[Charles Nungester]

The past couple years except some special shows its been a lot leaner on car counts for both Full up Late Models and some sprint shows, Expecially Wing Sprints.

Im just wondering whats the reasons? Travel cost are sure part but is it the running against the Stewarts, KKR's and Toyotas that are making cost rise? Is it less sponsorships available or what?

Chuck, just a question, I hope there are some valid answers or alternatives. From what I understand the 360 isn't much cheaper unless its severely regulated with head types ect.

[#1Brad Kuhn Fan]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester The past couple years except some special shows its been a lot leaner on car counts for both Full up Late Models and some sprint shows, Expecially Wing Sprints. Im just wondering whats the reasons? Travel cost are sure part but is it the running against the Stewarts, KKR's and Toyotas that are making cost rise? Is it less sponsorships available or what? Chuck, just a question, I hope there are some valid answers or alternatives. From what I understand the 360 isn't much cheaper unless its severely regulated with head types ect.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Chris Nunn]

We averaged over 60 Late Models for our big shows this year, the count isnt down as far as we go. But as for the World 100 and Dream at Eldora, the car count was down.

We will see what happens with fuel prices over the offseason i guess

[1BIGracefan]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester The past couple years except some special shows its been a lot leaner on car counts for both Full up Late Models and some sprint shows, Expecially Wing Sprints. Im just wondering whats the reasons? Travel cost are sure part but is it the running against the Stewarts, KKR's and Toyotas that are making cost rise? Is it less sponsorships available or what? Chuck, just a question, I hope there are some valid answers or alternatives. From what I understand the 360 isn't much cheaper unless its severely regulated with head types ect.

Hey Chuck here in Indiana we run without the wing all the time so the car counts will always be lower. Running against Stewart, Kahne or Toyotas most people like the challange of beating the "money" teams or the perception of them at least.

There is less money out there everybody on this board knows that. That was a SILLY question to ask one word ECONOMY. It has always cost alot of money to go up and down the road the ones the can affordit will do it the ones that cant will make thier weekly tracks happy in 2009.

As for the 360s IDK they are supposed to be "less" expensive but are they?


The Late Models I have know idea I will leave that for the folks who know them. I have not seen a LM race in 10 years.

[Rpracing1]

Future of winged sprints looks very bleak with the exception of possible one major national traveling series, whose attendance and car counts are also down.

[Mud Packer]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester The past couple years except some special shows its been a lot leaner on car counts for both Full up Late Models and some sprint shows, Expecially Wing Sprints. Im just wondering whats the reasons? Travel cost are sure part but is it the running against the Stewarts, KKR's and Toyotas that are making cost rise? Is it less sponsorships available or what? Chuck, just a question, I hope there are some valid answers or alternatives. From what I understand the 360 isn't much cheaper unless its severely regulated with head types ect.

Chuck,

Unless this economy turns around rather quickly, I think 2009 will be a very difficult year for racers and track operators. Most of the fans disposable income will be going to cover increased energy costs, food, fuel prices etc. That could very well slow fans from going to races that they would normally support. We have already seen a hand full of race tracks close this season and we can only hope that someone steps up with the money and know how to run them.

Sponsorships will be more difficult to obtain for both the racer and the tracks. Large companies are tightening their belts and sponsorship and advertising money won't be flowing like it has in the past. Tracks will feel this pinch which in turn directly effects the racers This certainly won't help the racers who could certainly use increased purse money, tow money, etc. Car counts will suffer as money gets tighter.

With less fans in the stands and fewer sponsorships available could spell disaster for promoters. I hope that I am wrong, but I really think that 2009 will be a very down year at the races. Of course, this is only my opinion so it really isn't worth much.:O:

[LEADERS EDGE]

It is and since I am a nice guy I am offering every team out there the chance to sell me their 410's for $500ea. That is cash American. At least that way they won't be worthless. I am only offering this because I care for the racer.

Kidding aside I would say that WINGED 410 cars are declining, but there isn't anything wrong with only having 1 or two traveling winged 410 series. There is only 1 traveling Non-Wing series and there has only been one to my knowledge.

Everyone gets caught up in 305/360/410 talk and all they are is numbers. If the best drivers where all running with the French Grimes Sprint Saver Series then that is what would be popular. Drivers make the sport, not the cars. The cars have changed many times over during the last 70 years and they will continue to evolve and change as the times dictate.

Does this mean I want 410's to go away? No because so many people have invested in them and there are so many out there that I would hate to see their investments go sour.

As far as tough times, I agree that there will be tough times, but energy costs are on pace to at least be 1/3 cheaper next year. We are experiencing a slow down and lay-offs, but we have endured this many times over the years. The fear of potentially having no money is what is driving much of the talk and speculation right now. Problem is: The more people don't spend their money the worse it will get for them. We need to spend money within our limits, BUT we have to stop spending BORREWED MONEY because we then truely have no disposible cash as the "juice" gets worse. I am not saying that credit and credit cards are evil, but they have a place and we have let them get out of control and the same goes with home equity lines. Don't use them for vacations. Use them for things that are needed.

As far as racing goes, personally I feel that if we had less tracks competing against each other then we could have fans in more of a concentrated area and the more fans means the bigger payouts for teams. As far as the teams around here wanting to compete with the "big boys" all I have to say to that is when there is a $10,000 show and a regular Paragon show, Who gets the most cars? Many guys want to get the feel of racing a car and that is cool in my book, but not many want to go and race against the best if that means they may have to watch them from the stands during the last race. I don't like racing like that, but I don't blame them either.

Racing will go on as it always has and people will find ways to go see the races, just don't worry about it and go enjoy what life has to offer. I'm not saying to spend your money foolishly or what have you, but if you enjoy racing, then do it. No matter if that means you like to drive,own or just watch. Be smart about it, but enjoy it and do so without fear. All of this talk of "what if and what could or should be" is just that. Talk. There are many people making legitimate fortunes using peoples fears against them right now as we speak.

We have come through a reveloutionary war, a civil war, two world wars, countless skirmish's, Cuban Missle Crises, Murdered Presidents and Leaders, Slavery, Civil Rights arguments, Corporate and Political Greed, a Great Depression and many, many recession's. This isn't even anything close to the worst thing we have ever seen before and something tells me we will get through this to.

Enjoy the ride while you can, even if you have to buckle up because it's a bumpy one.

[zeroracer]

I dont know about anyone elses perspective, but the $$$$ cost of non wing vs wing or LM, on engine alone the cost is less.... and i think it comes down to bottom $$ and it takes more room and time to maintain a wing car and a latemodel compaired to a non wing car, speaking from my experience

[Chris Nunn]

I dont know how much Sprint Engines cost, but here is the cost of one of the more popular Engines around from Pro Power

Chevy 430, Dart Block, 13 degree Dart heads, Outlaw Package, first freshen
$28,000 w/carb

Chevy 418, 16 degree Dart head, Brodix Block
$23,000 w/carb

Chevy 418, Dart Block, Chevy 18 degree heads, 2nd freshen
$17,000 w/carb

Chevy 390, Dart Block, Edlebrock 18 degree heads, 2nd freshen
$17,000 w/carb

Chevy 406, Dart Aluminum 18 degree heads, fresh
$15,000 w/carb

[Charles Nungester]

Gaerte Outlaw 410 Sprint Engines
Gaerte Engines builds engines for all the major Sprint Car and Outlaw Circuits
Starting Prices.: $34,000
(Pricing will vary depending on the amount of titanium the customer desires)

Gaerte 360 Style Engines
ASCS or Open
Gaerte Engines builds engines for all the major 360 Sanctioned and Unsanctioned races
prices
$22,850.00 (ASCS Style)
(now includes MSD ignition)


24,000.00 (Open 360

From a Mopar performance supplier
Mopar 410 SPRINT CAR ENGINE - 800 Horsepower

Reg. Price: $48,000.00
Sale Price: $43,500.00
Save: $4,500.00
Circle track race engine designed for use in non-winged sprintcars in USAC and SCRA racing series. This complete and dyno'ed aluminum "A" engine includes injector stacks, MSD magneto, ignition box and wires, oil tank and lines, front engine mounts and W9 cylinder heads.

Chuck