[jjones752]

So yesterday I'm in mid-thrash getting the Zonker buttoned-up when the news comes out that Montpelier's sogged-out for tonight. Bummer, but it does give me two more weeks to tinker, and also some time this morning to ask a question that may, to some, seem to have an obvious answer.
My much rubbed-on, many times altered Doemelt chassis came to me with a Bailey front axle assembly. The right side steering arm has 2 tierod mounting points, whereas the left side "combo" arm has only one (at the same point as the longest right side option); discretion being the better part of valor they say, so I've never changed how it originally came to me, which is to bolt the right end of the tierod the same distance from the kingpin as the left. Which brings me, finally, to the question:
Are the different locations for wing versus non-wing setups? If so, which is the non-wing? I'm assuming moving to the inner mount would increase the ackermann effect but I'm not quite geometrically-oriented enough to figure out which would be better for non-wing, more ackermann or less.
OK, back out to the shop; even if we don't get to race tonight I GOTTA get the Yellow Beastie on the ground and breathe some burned methanol & Uplon today...

[TQ29m]

Well, Jim, let me start off, by saying I've never seen one run with two different length arms, so to speak, and have often wondered, just what would happen if I tried it myself, and not being one to not except the challenge, in this case I decided against it, why screw up something that isn't broken, yet, but if you've been running it this way, maybe it works, or it doesn't, but you'll never know till you try, we do know that the two being equal works, so that part of the danger is eliminated, so I'd say, have at it, then you'll know, they already end up different angles, if they are in the same length holes, I guess its up to you, it isn't a big deal to change back, if it feels "ugly"! Bob

[LEADERS EDGE]

Teams have been / are playing with it on pave and wing.

[stroud21]

Never tried it myself but i saved this screenshot from Dave Steele's company facebook page or website a while back with info on the arms he sells.

[jjones752]

That's a great screenshot, it explains everything very well. Now, my steering arms have only one hole in the left arm and two in the right. The left arm's hole is equivalent to the rearmost hole in the right; following Dave Steele's description that means I have a choice of either minimal ackerman or right-steer induced ackerman. Since Dave is a pavement specialist I'm assuming the advice against running a shorter right side is directed towards asphalt where the desired condition is tight rather than loose, so following that logic could one deduce that the long-left, short right setup may be preferable on a looser (as in non-wing) setup? Otherwise, why would Bailey design steering arms for a condition that is "not recommended"?
Interesting.

[DAD]

Jim

Call Floyd and ask him. Best I can remember a lot of Baileys started out life as right steer>>>>That is how they did it in the less enlightened days. Bet your car was updated.

Honest Dad himself

[CTtoPA]

Doemelt chassis were definitely right steer. My father still has his '90 Doemelt at my parents' lol

[jjones752]

Dad,
The arms are for left steer, combo arm on the left with a single tie rod locating point, steering arm on the right, with two tie rod locating points, one the same distance from the kingpin as the left arm, one about an inch closer. I've been told via IM that the using the closer mounting point on the right does generate toe-out (and therefore "ackerman effect") when steering to the right as it says on the screenshot from Dave Steele's page and can help to tighten the car up on corner exit. Nothing to do with which side the pitman arm is on. Lately Floyd has been difficult to get on the phone so I thought I'd ask here, and I've gotten some very informative answers.
CT, your Dad's Doemelt may have the pitman arm on the right but I've seen plenty, mine included, with the pitman arm on the left. But again, pitman arm location has nothing to do with this question.

[bobby01]

About every 10 years or so someone try,s ackerman on short track cars be it dirt or pavement and they always go back. Ackerman is great until you get loose and back steer that's when things go to heck in a hand basket. I tried it 20 years ago and it didn't work then and I don't believe it will today.
Bobby Layne

[Jim Gardner]

If the car is handling properly the steering input is more about transferring weight than actually redirecting the nose of the car. In the middle of the corner the left front should be doing so little work (especially nonwing) that a dynamic toe gain shouldn't really make a difference. It's more so acting as steering offset because you could adjust how far the RF turns based on the same steering input. The big worry that I would have on the dirt would be how darty the car may be down the straights if you're changing the Ackermann, the car would feel significantly different.