How far off am I? I posted this on trackforum, and was just wondering if I'm missing the mark as I formulate opinions regarding the status of open wheel racing in America. I am not trying to stir anything up, I simply want to understand the whole picture. The thread was started by someone else, and was about whether there will be a FIL scholarship for a USAC driver next year:

The dirt track fan inside me wants to tell Randy Bernard that he cannot have Bobby East unless he figures out how Bobby East’s father can help him build his Indy car right here in Indiana (and many people are thankful that decision is not up to me). He is one of the premiere open wheel chassis builders in the United States. 'Indy cars' got their name from being defined as "open wheel race cars meeting the requirements to race during the Indianapolis 500". For years, there was a connection betweel local short track open wheel racing and the "big race". The USAC-Indy ladder broke due to a combination of factors. The 1974 banning of rear engines, the 1978 USAC plane crash, the introduction of the March mass produced chassis are a few of these factors. Links to learn more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Auto_Club
http://motorcaster.com/resc/rear-engine-sprint-car.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Engineering

FIL sponsorships for USAC champions are only the start of a lengthy rebuilding process between the race and American drivers. The challenge of these sponsorships is that they are currently limited to garnering interest for only the drivers, and not Indy cars themselves. When USAC was the definitive road to Indy, there was a relationship between engineers, fabricators, mechanics and drivers that helped create an atmosphere which made the Indy 500 such a unique race. There was a migration to Indianapolis to be a part of that racing community and be a part of building these race cars.

Every May, people came from all over the world to challenge the cars and drivers this racing community developed. This is no longer the case as the community has very little part of the "big race" now. The community is still here, but they are not building Indy cars anymore. I am surprised this community even lets the current Indy car league borrow their drivers so the league can have some more American names, considering they have been shut out from being part of the cars they or their predecessors came to build.

Just a few glimmers of hope, from my perspective include:

1) The new Indianapolis Dallara factory being built
2) The rear engine open wheel car pacing the USAC race at the Terre Haute race last Wednesday.
3) Over 160 sprint cars running last Saturday night within a 3 hour radius from Indianapolis. (Maybe 20 of them can be rear engine sprints one day, just as an experiment)
4) The recent admission from Kevin Miller, USAC president, that their best effort was not afforded to the recent Silver Crown race.

P.S. It's not just about Bobby East. There are quite a few folks in Indiana who have fathers who know how to build open wheel race cars. Some of them even have the rear engine thing figured out already.

[Dannypollock24]

Originally Posted by deannalynn How far off am I? I posted this on trackforum, and was just wondering if I'm missing the mark as I formulate opinions regarding the status of open wheel racing in America. I am not trying to stir anything up, I simply want to understand the whole picture. The thread was started by someone else, and was about whether there will be a FIL scholarship for a USAC driver next year: The dirt track fan inside me wants to tell Randy Bernard that he cannot have Bobby East unless he figures out how Bobby East’s father can help him build his Indy car right here in Indiana (and many people are thankful that decision is not up to me). He is one of the premiere open wheel chassis builders in the United States. 'Indy cars' got their name from being defined as "open wheel race cars meeting the requirements to race during the Indianapolis 500". For years, there was a connection betweel local short track open wheel racing and the "big race". The USAC-Indy ladder broke due to a combination of factors. The 1974 banning of rear engines, the 1978 USAC plane crash, the introduction of the March mass produced chassis are a few of these factors. Links to learn more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Auto_Club http://motorcaster.com/resc/rear-engine-sprint-car.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Engineering FIL sponsorships for USAC champions are only the start of a lengthy rebuilding process between the race and American drivers. The challenge of these sponsorships is that they are currently limited to garnering interest for only the drivers, and not Indy cars themselves. When USAC was the definitive road to Indy, there was a relationship between engineers, fabricators, mechanics and drivers that helped create an atmosphere which made the Indy 500 such a unique race. There was a migration to Indianapolis to be a part of that racing community and be a part of building these race cars. Every May, people came from all over the world to challenge the cars and drivers this racing community developed. This is no longer the case as the community has very little part of race now. The community is still here, but they are not building Indy cars anymore. I am surprised this community even lets the current Indy car league borrow their drivers so the league can have some more American names, considering they have been shut out from being part of the cars they or their predecessors came to build. Just a few glimmers of hope, from my perspective include: 1) The new Indianapolis Dallara factory being built 2) The rear engine open wheel car pacing the USAC race at the Terre Haute race last Wednesday. 3) Over 160 sprint cars running last Saturday night within a 3 hour radius from Indianapolis. (Maybe 20 of them can be rear engine sprints one day, just as an experiment) 4) The recent admission from Kevin Miller, USAC president, that their best effort was not afforded to the recent Silver Crown race. P.S. It's not just about Bobby East. There are quite a few folks in Indiana who have fathers who know how to build open wheel race cars. Some of them even have the rear engine thing figured out already.

I'm not being negative but you have been out of the loop a while as you have said! I suggest you do like when younger and go to the tracks you will learn a lot there just talking to Drivers when they have the time between races! Just my 2 cents!

Danny 24

Things are so different now, theres hardly any connection between Indy Cars and whats run locally. Last thing we need is to build rear engine sprints now. Used to be thru hard work and a usac license you could drive your way to the top of Indy Car. Anymore you need to have a good PR team and sponsorship money following you to your Indy ride. Its almost certain that if you have a Indy ride you didnt get it thru a usac sprint or silver crown car. Now days drivers are pretty much born into a program which starts with karts, Indy lights, and whatever. You said it yourself, over 160 sprints running last saturday. I think the state of open wheel racing is good, especially in Indy. Theres just so many other things competing for everyones attention on any given weekend. As for fixing Indy Car racing, I dont think it can be fixed, get some young americans wins that will do alot.

Originally Posted by backitin As for fixing Indy Car racing, I dont think it can be fixed, get some young americans wins that will do alot.

Why even bother to help fix it, since things have changed so much?

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Dannypollock24 I'm not being negative but you have been out of the loop a while as you have said! I suggest you do like when younger and go to the tracks you will learn a lot there just talking to Drivers when they have the time between races! Just my 2 cents! Danny 24

I was never in any 'loops', Danny, especially the ones which connected the local tracks to the big ones. You don't have to be in a loop to read books, articles or go to races. I have no intention of bothering drivers during events. In fact, what I'm trying to understand about racing doesn't have much at all to do with individual drivers. I keep trying to tell you that what I'm trying to understand has more to do with everything else about racing. What I'm studying is not about "who won what race what year" and such. If you want be in the crowd that thinks I'm not allowed to be a race fan because I can't go to every sprint car race, go right ahead.

[Panama]

"If" you are talking rear engine sprints running on dirt?

I have already seen that tried a looooong time ago, and it wasn't pretty!

I would hate to see anything like that get started, again.

Now granted, there are some drivers you could give a top dollar winning car to, and they would still be a rolling hazard. But I remember a guy out of the Indy area, by the name of John Sage, he tried running a rear engine dirt sprinter at Bloomington in the late 70's.

It did not work out well for him, or the other drivers on the track with him either.

My .02

Originally Posted by Panama "If" you are talking rear engine sprints running on dirt? I have already seen that tried a looooong time ago, and it wasn't pretty! I would hate to see anything like that get started, again. Now granted, there are some drivers you could give a top dollar winning car to, and they would still be a rolling hazard. But I remember a guy out of the Indy area, by the name of John Sage, he tried running a rear engine dirt sprinter at Bloomington in the late 70's. It did not work out well for him, or the other drivers on the track with him either. My .02

It's clear those are not coming back, I only see the interest in learning about them as hope for the future. On trackforum, REs were brought up several times. While this might not ever happen, just the fact that people are discussing it shows that there are still people that care about that connection and brainstorming how to bring it back. It shows that not everyone has thrown in the towel with connecting the short tracks to the big race. Like I said, it might not be the answer, but at least people are trying to think of one.

[Panama]

Well, I can almost "understand the connection" back then.

The only real connection back in the day was, that USAC was the sanctioning body for Indy cars, Champ cars, Sprint cars, and the points systems was such you had to run all of them, to have a shot at the USAC National Championship, and to be able to run the coveted #1 on your car the next season.

Those days are sadly gone and they will not be coming back.

I remember a traditional upright sprint car that Karl Kinser built that had 4 wheel independent suspension, it was outlawed by the Outlaws, before it ever left his shop.
And he may still have it, not sure about that though.

It would have revolutionized sprint cars as we know them today, (I think) and it would have driven the cost sky high at the same time, but it was a pretty neat deal to see.

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, just don't get so far outside the box people think you have an empty box.
:2:

[brc]

deannalynn,

to cut to the quick. "Too many cooks , spoil the soup".
how many bobby allen's do you see out on the sprint car circuit regardless of organization?
anytime a sprint car trailer rolls into a track regardless of area of the country 50 people get out of the tow vehicle,,running into each other,most of them along just "killing time".
blood and guts racers like bobby allen, rick ferkel,,that lived and breathed sprint car racing while they were doing it,are simply non existent these days.
it WAS grass roots racers like these and several others that come to mind that made sprint car racing a great thing to be around at the time they were making things happen. didn't make any difference to them if they were towing across the country to race for $5000 or $500 they WOULD do it.
would anyone in the indy car owner world ever approach guys like this to drive an indy? Very doubtful. toooo blue collar,, plain and simple
in regards to 'building' rear engine or innovative sprint car stuff,,,yes Karl Kinser did have an independent suspension sprint car as did Sammy at the same time frame,with rack and pinion steering. Sammy also had the slickest 'mile sprint car' ever to scratch dirt, with fully functional front diffusers built in that exited at the center of the headers.
you have some good things to say there girl! you are trying to get the vibe on melding sprint car drivers to get a shot at an Indy car run,,i think is what you are trying to say?

take care,
bc

Originally Posted by brc you have some good things to say there girl! you are trying to get the vibe on melding sprint car drivers to get a shot at an Indy car run,,i think is what you are trying to say? take care, bc

Yes, thank you for understanding. One of the things that upsets me the most is when people say that dream is gone and isn't coming back. Normally, it's fans that say that, and it's sad that so many people think that way. When they say stuff like the tracks aren't connected or there hasn't been a connection since the 50's or that I'm living in the past, it just makes me wonder WHY they really think that. If there is anything at all that anyone can bet on in life it's change, and I want to know why they think things can't change for the better, so our guys (American sprint car drivers) can have their opportunities back.

I also think the mechanics and engineers should have their Indy goals back. In the bigger scheme of things, I had this to say about IndyCar when somebody said there should be more A.J. Watsons on TrackForum: I know it's a little more extreme, but there has to be a way to bring some of that old magic back, and I'm looking at this from as many angles as I can think of.
I said, "That would be cool, but how can that happen nowadays? You can't build your own chassis and you can't make your own engines. Seems that the introduction of mass production into the sport kind of killed the art of the Indy car. Without that creativity from those builders like Watson, Smokey Yunick, Grant King, Jackie Howerton, the Foyts (as builders) and countless others, it's just kind of dull. It's as if builders were artists at one time, and able to chose their own canvas and paints. Now, everybody gets the same coloring book and has to choose from the same colors of crayons.

I know they streamlined options in order to make open wheel racing more affordable, but open wheel racing was never meant to be affordable. That's what stock cars were supposed to be for. Good luck selling a diminished product to the masses. The art of it all is virtually gone. "
P.S. I know it's an elitist attitude, but what it resulted in was more respect for the mechanics, engineers, builders, and innovators. It made it so the welders, wrenchers, and drivers were at least just as important as the guys with the checkbooks. It doesn't seem that way anymore. Like the guy on trackforum said, "We need more A.J. Watsons."

[NoviSpecial]

Well, I feel your pain...

Plain and simple there isn't real, true innovation like there has been in decades past... especially in Indy car racing... I have never been a fan of the crate motor deal... deep pockets don't ALWAYS win... especially in racing... My Grandfather used to race at the Speedway, in the 40's and 50's ~ he was a grass roots racer, running midgets and sprints 5, 6, 7 days a week, coast to coast... waiting for that shot to get to the speedway...

Push to pass - makes me want to vomit in my mouth...

Personally, bringing rear engines to Sprint cars, doesn't entice me one bit... but give me a driver, that can race anything - ANYTHING and be good at it... that's what I'm talking about... the kind that can ride the cushion hung out, can back it in, can figure out a pavement track... And always gives it 110%

Don't get me wrong, I have and always will love the Speedway, I hope they are finally creeping into the right direction, but I don't know... I think we need to start at the bottom and work our way up... It's promoters, where are they?? Who is jazzing up the public ~ getting folks TO the racetrack? Get some new blood... There should be car shows during the week, at every restaurant on the corner - give some tickets away... Sprint Week attendance was good, but I've seen better. The sport deserves better, Shout out to Buckley and Jackslash, his weekly sprintcar show is exactly what this sport needs... Hell ESPN ain't doin so hot - maybe bringing Thursday night Thunder back might even spark their ratings...

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, so true - and it hasn't made sense to me that Honda supplied all the engines, but Chevy supplies all the track vehicles at IMS... It would be AMAZING to see a "Run what ya brung!" back at the speedway... Give them a BUDGET and a set of rules - then Let's go Racin'!

Just my two cents... oh yeah, and I like your name - Deanna is my name too ;o) I have some random thoughts going on here, so I apologize... if you can't tell ~ I love racing and would want nothing more than to see open wheel continue to prosper...