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9/14/21, 1:21 PM   #1
Are 360 and limited classes feeders or a cheaper option?
Charles Nungester
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I honestly don't know the answer to my question other than it seems harder than ever for people to fund top rides with several merging to keep one running.
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9/14/21, 6:32 PM   #2
PIT CART
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I live really close to Lima land speedway. I go maybe twice a year and I notice the 360 guys putting new left and right rear tires for the feature. I can not imagine that being very affordable.
 
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9/14/21, 9:16 PM   #3
Re: Are 360 and limited classes feeders or a cheaper option?
Charles Nungester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PIT CART View Post
I live really close to Lima land speedway. I go maybe twice a year and I notice the 360 guys putting new left and right rear tires for the feature. I can not imagine that being very affordable.
Kinda a common practice to use last weeks feature tires for Practice and heats then put on new for the feature as it's the only race that pays.

What Im asking that is going to a motor that will last a season or more say (50-60) the answer when it takes three or more thumpers 410s to get thru a USAC season ( I know some buy one a season and rotate/sell the oldest but it's still a giant $ if you lose one.

How do you grow this sport that more seem to be leaving or combining three cars/teams into one just to stay in it?
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9/15/21, 6:28 PM   #4
Re: Are 360 and limited classes feeders or a cheaper option?
Stevensville Mike
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I always thought the whole "sell" of the 360s was to save money. The main saver was spec cylinder heads. If you did not wish to use the spec heads you had to run an intake manifold restrictor. So, in theory, money saved. With a quality spec head competition was leveled out, so to speak. Short of spec engines, this was a nice, meet-you-in-the middle formula.

At least this is where SOD was just prior and during their alliance with ASCS. After that, they changed their whole approach/formula. But that is not the point.

Anyone invested in this 360 c.i. formula wish to chime in?
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9/16/21, 7:44 AM   #5
Re: Are 360 and limited classes feeders or a cheaper option?
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevensville Mike View Post
I always thought the whole "sell" of the 360s was to save money. The main saver was spec cylinder heads. If you did not wish to use the spec heads you had to run an intake manifold restrictor. So, in theory, money saved. With a quality spec head competition was leveled out, so to speak. Short of spec engines, this was a nice, meet-you-in-the middle formula.

At least this is where SOD was just prior and during their alliance with ASCS. After that, they changed their whole approach/formula. But that is not the point.

Anyone invested in this 360 c.i. formula wish to chime in?
Folks,

When we started in sprint cars we ran locally under ASCS rules. At that time the head rule stated "no performance enhancing modifications" allowed. This kept this part of the cost somewhat in hand but, as we've seen with the 305's, it has morphed into "allowable" performance enhancing modifications which are both expensive and necessary to be competitive. The overwhelming trend when rules dictate a spec piece is for parts manufacturers to engineer and manufacture the other components to maximize the power and speed of the car. Note the costs of a fuel injection or driveline components for the 305's. This trend essentially negates the original objective of "cost savings". Oh, and you get to race for 50-75% of the normal purse. So, in answer to the original question, while the costs can be less initially it usually evolves to a near-equal level to the "higher" classes.

The other thing to think about is that the other costs are the same whatever class you race in. You still have transportation costs to get to and from the track, race fuel, oil, tires, etc. You still need a way to get the car to the staging area (and at some tracks around other parts of the country the four-wheeler needs to be big enough to start the car), etc. An audit of my expenses a few years ago revealed that I spent approximately 45% of my racing budget on things other than the race car.

Just my experience.

Tim Simmons
 
9/16/21, 8:55 AM   #6
Re: Are 360 and limited classes feeders or a cheaper option?
Ray3
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I'll add my $.02. The biggest problem when a series takes cost cutting measures is the promoters seem to take that as a license to cut the purse. The whole point of the cost cutting measure is to increase car count to help the promoter provide a better show. However, cutting the purse either stops or slows the increase of cars. One thing racers need to do though, is make sure the cost cutting measures don't slow the cars to a point the promoter feels forced to cut the purse. For instance, the Badger Midgets went to their DOHC 2.4 liter performance production based program. The cars still turn laps at 14.4 at Angell Park where the track record for Badger was 14.1 and the USAC track record is 14.3. We can argue the reasons why but heck Badger qualified a tad faster than USAC when they visitied Angell Park over labor day weekend! Keeping the speed in the cars is important to the promoter to justify keeping the purse up. As long as the series does what Badger did, the promoter should be holding or increasing the overall purse.

On another note, promoters who don't understand that back gate promoting is not sustainable frustrate me. If you take a good look and run scenarios of different car counts you will find that there is a point of diminishing return. So just packing the back gate is not the answer. Front gate promoting is the only real way to make a profit at a race track.
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Last edited by Ray3; 9/16/21 at 9:11 AM.
 
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