Right Vookie it was outside front row. I have a good memory, it is short but good!

This is an interesting topic to ponder, debate, and watch. Many are pointing out that this suggestion for guaranteed starting spots in the 500 is the same as the 25/8 debacle of the mid-90s. It is, to a point, and there is a quite a bit of irony to it, I agree. I am going to take it to yet another level of irony:

When Tony George came up with the 25/8 rule for the 500, it changed American Open Wheel Racing forever since. His "motive" for doing so, in my opinion, was to get the upper hand in building his series which would subsequently replace the existing series, CART. The IRL was in its infancy at this time. He was using the Indianapolis Motor Speedway as leverage. This quickly got the ire of the CART side and whatever side of the table you were sitting at during that time period, we all know what happened after that.

This new suggestion by Penske, Ganassi, and Andretti (and whoever else might join in).... they are not on the outside looking IN like CART was when the IRL formed. These guys ARE the IndyCar series right now (along with others). They are INSIDE looking AROUND. There is no "rivalry" here.

George was trying to get the upper hand on his RIVALS (i.e. CART), not his own guys in his series. He NEEDED his guys, like all sanctioning bodies do.

What this NEW guaranteed starting spot thing reminds me more of is when the car owners in the top series staged their rebellion in the late 70s and formed CART. This basically was an overthrow of USAC sanctioning the series. Now, I know there was a plane crash involved and the table was tipped quite a bit, but that is how CART started - the owners trying to gain more say in running things. Well, they got their say - They got the whole sha-bang.

Then what happened THERE? CART went on to a decade and a half of true success and the Indianapolis 500 ALSO remained a true success, but not under CART rules. CART recognized it as one of their races, but entered under USAC rules. But sooner or later, the whole thing went full circle and.... well..... You know. So, yeah..... there is a LOT of irony and history here. One could suggest this is the first volley fired in that direction?

As George Santanyana once penned, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

An interesting topic to watch here it will be.

& it was 1997. No way Tony woulda won an Indy car champ if it wasn't for Tony George. I know he had the Foyt test (b4 the Menards deal), but that was after the IRL was announced anyway

Love this thread. It brings me back to the time my knee-jerk reaction to a post from Mike about IndyCar caused me to apologize for not considering another point of view. Glad it happened though because I certainly do enjoy talking to him at the races when we get a chance. I certainly get the sentiment from full timers, but I don’t agree with it. No team or person is bigger than this event. Reminds me also of the second best racing quote I’ve ever heard, brought to mind by listening to Bob Jenkins on the Rip the Fence podcast. Al Unser Jr. in victory lane, looking to the heavens saying “you just don’t know what Indy means”. Bumping helped found “what Indy means”. Removing it, in my opinion, would take away some of that meaning.

What's the point of Bump day if certain teams can't be bumped?

I was very upset with last years. Time stopped 15 minutes early so they could run a dozen more commercials and get a interview.

And as I was discussing this thread with flagboy55 off line via PMs, the irony of an ex-CART owner proposing this idea never hit me until someone here pointed it out. Then I started thinking about the formation of CART.

One thing is for sure - the show will go on. HOW it will go on, we'll see. Kokomo sure isn't going on tonight, though.

It ends a lot earlier this year. All qualifying is done at 2:15 PM on Sunday. Open Practice starts again at 3:15 PM.

And if you didn't make the top 30 on Saturday you get just one chance for an hour on Sunday to get one of the last row positions.

On Sunday morning, there will be a 30-minute practice session for the nine cars competing for pole, followed by a 30-minute practice for the expected six or seven cars vying for one of the three slots on the back row of the grid.

At 12.15pm, Last Row Qualifying will begin, order set by the original Friday night draw, with just one attempt allowed per car.

At 1.15pm, the Fast Nine shootout for pole commences, with cars running in the order of the Saturday times, slowest to fastest, and again just one run is permitted per entrant.

An hour after that, at 3.15pm, the track will re-open for a 2hr45min practice session for all 33 qualified cars. There will be a further practice for these 33 on Monday May 20, from 12 until 2pm.

This isn't the same as 25/8.

One thing that would stop this push by the owners would be to go back to a qualifying format that would allow multiple runs to bump. Positions 1-30 are locked in on Saturday with 1-9 going for pole on Sunday and 31-33 up for bump with one run per car. From a business standpoint there are legit concerns from the full time side in regards to sponsors. SPM got lucky that they had a sponsor that stuck with them and expanded after being bumped. While four days are no longer needed due to numbers they do need to set it qualifying better than it currently is. They need to allow Sunday to be a full day of bumping minus the short session for the first three rows. The current format is pretty much made for TV in how it's set up.

Graham Rahal checks in.
"I think it's only fair to earn your way into this race.
I'm not a fan of it...you don't get race in this race because it's owed to you. It's not owned to you.it's an honor to be part of it and therefore I'm not a fan."

What would be better than Johnny Parsons coming out of the garage area with about a half hour left in qualifying. Take one practice run, then bump someone and put it in the show. That is what Indy is supposed to be. Remember when you could go to a practice day and sit anywhere you want. Spend the day, pure fun, go to Union Jacks for Pizza, then head for IRP or one of the many Sprint Car tracks for a night of racing.