Low Budget racing.

tim kelley · 11/19/11, 9:23 PM

I was interested in knowing what you think. Do you think that a low budget sprint car and a low budget midget division would work in EastCentral Indiana? Would like your opinion. Thanks

racephoto1 · 11/19/11, 9:41 PM

Tim, there is no such thing as low budget racing. A track may try it, but one track isn't enough. You need 4 or 5 tracks to get involved, all running the SAME rules.

If you don't you don't get a good car count Then you have to ''loosen" the rules to draw more cars. This pees off the guys who originally started with you . It just spirals out of control.

It doesn't pay to be a one man band. You may carry an orchestra on your back, but a real orchestra makes much better music. You have to have more than one track involved.

legend77 · 11/19/11, 9:41 PM

Define low budget and what your thinking as far as rules and motor options.

TQ29m · 11/19/11, 9:48 PM

Tim, that's a good thought, but as I see it, impossible to achieve, about as low budget as it gets, and nothing against Paragon, but that is probably the place that will see the most traffic. To do it, would mean creating 2 new divisions, with new regs, and specs, there is no "low Budget" racing that I know of, the only thing I know is, some of us just don't spend as much money as others do, you know about the cost you can encounter in TQ's, if you are determined to be a front runner, or in Hornet's, as far as that goes. The only low budget racing that I know ever existed, was a guy in Illinois, had his own karting complex, and you could race on a budget, you could rent it all, or you could own your own kart, and rent an engine, you went to the track, paid the fee, drew a chit out of a can, handed it to one of his sons, who went and retrieved "your" engine, whch already had a mount, clutch, throttle hoolup, and oil in it, you put it on, went to the pump around, filled the tank, did your racing for the evening, removed the engine, returned it to the counter, and went home. During the week, all the engines were checked, the clutches serviced, any necessary repairs made, and returned to the holding area, with a different chit hanging on them, now that's about as close as it gets to "budget"! The way I do my TQ racing, is a lot cheaper than all the years I spent racing karts, we are a top 5 car 99% of the time, and I don't break the bank on parts, all my stuff I either make, or shop on Ebay. JMHO! Never will forget the night we went to that track, west of W Lafayette, when it was paved, and Bill James was driving your car, and someone was dropping oil on the track, the fog was so bad you couldn't see where the track went, and I think Bill flipped yours, fun night. Bob

tim kelley · 11/19/11, 10:12 PM

Oh I know there is nothing low budget in racing. I was thinking of mayne running a Friday night maybe 600 to win 100 to show sprints and aroung 500, 100 to start midget. I know we will still have the big spenders. .You know rich daddy's, unlimited budgets. I'm trying to make it where more people have fun. Keith Ford has done so much for the guys that, without him would not race. Thanks Keith

SamSr32 · 11/19/11, 10:30 PM

Tim, The answer for low dollar Sprint Cars is the RACESAVER group that is headed by French Grimes out of Virginia. This is spreading through the country and would be a perfect thing to start in your area. I have researched this and it looks real good. Kansas, Texas, and all the Eastern states are under their rules with successful series.
Sam Stockon Sr.

sday27 · 11/19/11, 10:50 PM

Tim
you know where iam with the idea , look at at the big series usac really struggles to get car counts in there d1 series, how many car do they get in there shows in there national series, i would like to see someone try something . the sponsor are'nt wanting to pay the money that it cost to fund midgets team. thats why you only got a few good owers to drive for . after the economey fell not to many people are wanting to spend the money to race, yea it may take some doing but i beleave if you get the right tracks it will work .

hairracer44 · 11/20/11, 1:39 AM

Tim, stick with the Paragon model. No tire rule or engine rules to speak of but the key to Paragon is everyone runs a Feature. $500 to win $100 to start. If you start your heat but can't start the feature you get $50. Great way for the new guys to get seat time and the guys that are out to have fun and not looking to make a career out of racing will be loyal. Prep a good track and make it fun to come race at your track.

Keep your Pit passes affordable and a guy can come race and get his pit pass money back and have fun. Promote it right and you will get a good car count and fans in the stand. I don't know why any race fan would complain about possible seeing 2 sprint features for one price.

gajbowden · 11/20/11, 6:31 AM

U want low budget , have a look at AWSR .com.au , V6 wingless sprints in Australia and New Zealand, started 6 yrs ago with 5 cars now 300 plus across the whole country. 50 plus cars are now showing up at some meetings.
We can only run a STOCK v6 Holden engine with bigger injectors so we use methanol. I have ran this class for past 5 yrs and do aprox 15-20 shows per season , my engine bill for past 5 yrs is $1500 au which is aprox $1400 for u guys , most run s/hand sprint car tyres . All cars are self starting so tracks love to run us. Lap times are about the same as midgets, biggest down side is V6 engines dont sound anything like a V8.
Cheers

Drew Tarr · 11/21/11, 3:58 PM

I couldn't imagine open wheel racing any cheaper than the "paragon" open 410 formula. I raced every night the doors were open, and averaged aprox $250 a night in expenses and most of that was gas for the truck. I used 15 gallons of fuel in the car on average, 1/2 an oil change every night, and 5 rr tires the entire season, (2 of which had 1 night each) and broke/mangled about $600 worth of stuff over the entire season. I have a $$$$ engine, but that certainly isn't an advantage for me and my inexperience. I saw lots of lower dollar engines more than carry their own. My dad's engine is a 100 % used internet special that cost way less than a good modified or stock car engine and was less than a 1/3 of the cost of his last ASCS 360 engine,used, on the "good guy" deal. Though I am new to this world, dry slick tracks seem to be a great HP equalizer. A few years older unlimited technology is whole lot cheaper than the trickest trick of the week technology in any kind of "limited engine rules" package and makes a whole bunch more power. The fact that Paragon averaged 40 sprints a night has to say something about it being a successful formula. I bet most tracks would kill to have 40 cars there every night they opened the doors, and I am sure the spectators always left at the end of the night feeling like they saw a good show for their dollars spent. I would think a "open" sprint program and 2 support classes that mirror the rules of the other local dirt tracks in the area would make a pretty successful venture for a regular program.

11/19/11, 9:48 PM	#4 Re: Low Budget racing.
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,214	Tim, that's a good thought, but as I see it, impossible to achieve, about as low budget as it gets, and nothing against Paragon, but that is probably the place that will see the most traffic. To do it, would mean creating 2 new divisions, with new regs, and specs, there is no "low Budget" racing that I know of, the only thing I know is, some of us just don't spend as much money as others do, you know about the cost you can encounter in TQ's, if you are determined to be a front runner, or in Hornet's, as far as that goes. The only low budget racing that I know ever existed, was a guy in Illinois, had his own karting complex, and you could race on a budget, you could rent it all, or you could own your own kart, and rent an engine, you went to the track, paid the fee, drew a chit out of a can, handed it to one of his sons, who went and retrieved "your" engine, whch already had a mount, clutch, throttle hoolup, and oil in it, you put it on, went to the pump around, filled the tank, did your racing for the evening, removed the engine, returned it to the counter, and went home. During the week, all the engines were checked, the clutches serviced, any necessary repairs made, and returned to the holding area, with a different chit hanging on them, now that's about as close as it gets to "budget"! The way I do my TQ racing, is a lot cheaper than all the years I spent racing karts, we are a top 5 car 99% of the time, and I don't break the bank on parts, all my stuff I either make, or shop on Ebay. JMHO! Never will forget the night we went to that track, west of W Lafayette, when it was paved, and Bill James was driving your car, and someone was dropping oil on the track, the fog was so bad you couldn't see where the track went, and I think Bill flipped yours, fun night. Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I! _________________________________________________ Last edited by TQ29m; 11/19/11 at 9:51 PM.

11/19/11, 10:50 PM	#7 Re: Low Budget racing.
sday27 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 118	Tim you know where iam with the idea , look at at the big series usac really struggles to get car counts in there d1 series, how many car do they get in there shows in there national series, i would like to see someone try something . the sponsor are'nt wanting to pay the money that it cost to fund midgets team. thats why you only got a few good owers to drive for . after the economey fell not to many people are wanting to spend the money to race, yea it may take some doing but i beleave if you get the right tracks it will work . _________________________________________________ Last edited by sday27; 11/19/11 at 10:55 PM.

11/19/11, 9:23 PM	#1 Low Budget racing.
tim kelley Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 165	I was interested in knowing what you think. Do you think that a low budget sprint car and a low budget midget division would work in EastCentral Indiana? Would like your opinion. Thanks

11/19/11, 9:41 PM	#3 Re: Low Budget racing.
legend77 Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 5	Define low budget and what your thinking as far as rules and motor options.

11/19/11, 10:12 PM	#5 Re: Low Budget racing.
tim kelley Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 165	Oh I know there is nothing low budget in racing. I was thinking of mayne running a Friday night maybe 600 to win 100 to show sprints and aroung 500, 100 to start midget. I know we will still have the big spenders. .You know rich daddy's, unlimited budgets. I'm trying to make it where more people have fun. Keith Ford has done so much for the guys that, without him would not race. Thanks Keith

11/21/11, 3:58 PM	#10 Re: Low Budget racing.
Drew Tarr Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 138	I couldn't imagine open wheel racing any cheaper than the "paragon" open 410 formula. I raced every night the doors were open, and averaged aprox $250 a night in expenses and most of that was gas for the truck. I used 15 gallons of fuel in the car on average, 1/2 an oil change every night, and 5 rr tires the entire season, (2 of which had 1 night each) and broke/mangled about $600 worth of stuff over the entire season. I have a $$$$ engine, but that certainly isn't an advantage for me and my inexperience. I saw lots of lower dollar engines more than carry their own. My dad's engine is a 100 % used internet special that cost way less than a good modified or stock car engine and was less than a 1/3 of the cost of his last ASCS 360 engine,used, on the "good guy" deal. Though I am new to this world, dry slick tracks seem to be a great HP equalizer. A few years older unlimited technology is whole lot cheaper than the trickest trick of the week technology in any kind of "limited engine rules" package and makes a whole bunch more power. The fact that Paragon averaged 40 sprints a night has to say something about it being a successful formula. I bet most tracks would kill to have 40 cars there every night they opened the doors, and I am sure the spectators always left at the end of the night feeling like they saw a good show for their dollars spent. I would think a "open" sprint program and 2 support classes that mirror the rules of the other local dirt tracks in the area would make a pretty successful venture for a regular program.