[LEADERS EDGE]

Ok. I stand corrected. What does those events pay out purse wise?

[DAD]

We have been racing Mini sprints almost 30 years now I guess. For the most part it has been a very enjoyable part of our family life. The reason for Mini Sprints is because we love "Midget Racing".!

I thought at that time that I had beat the addiction of racing for good and was clean and sober. Well I was invited to watch a then young AJ Felker race his Mini Sprint at the famous "Wonder Valley Speedway" in Salem Indiana. Those things were simply neat and beyond words to me. I soon signed on as a sponsor, mechanic and later was allowed to graduate to car owner for this then sub teen race driver. Those things looked just like Midgets but with the wings they also looked a great deal like what was then called Winged Outlaw Sprints. I immediately saw racing as a way to teach my young son the responsibility's of safe driving and felt it could also be used to deter him from the use of drugs. With that decision I had great success. He graduated from the J.B. Speed School of Engineering and is a practicing software engineer. His driving record on the road is better than mine.

Secretly We have always wanted to race Midgets. Through my friendship with Ralph Potter I knew about the cost of racing midgets and all the efforts required to field a winning car . That definitely was not something I wanted to embark on. As a recovering addict I knew that I had to keep myself in certain bounds. Mini Sprints or as I like to refer to them now 1000cc Midgets are hands down the most inexpensive labor UN-intensive form of open wheel race car out there....

Along came USAC and the Focus Midget. To keep costs down? USAC decides to furnish the racer everything in a hermetically sealed container to keep cheater out of the formula. The only problem with this theory are the very lackluster little Focus was way down on Horsepower and overly priced to make any kind of sense to a recovering addict. We were beating them with 600cc uprights back then. Next Allen Ruppenthal come along and reinvents and saves the 1200cc Mini Sprints from extinction with a little Yamaha 1000cc R-1 motorcycle engine. Now I think that perhaps I have died and went to Heaven. These things are fast, almost as fast as a full Midget and still relatively inexpensive and don't require a lot of maintenance. Now all I have to do is convince a few people that these things are really Midgets and not Mini or Lightning or any other kind of Sprint Cars. I haven't been too successful in my efforts.

I first saw an Echo Tec at the Chili Bowl probably 5 or 6 years ago. They had it set up as a display only. Revolution Racing was the company's name. This engine looked like a race engine. I talked with the owner about his creation and could tell that he was sincere in his wish to get these things in race cars. He had managed to get a few race cars together and I watched my first EchoTec race at the first Shootout that the 1200cc cars were invited to race in. From watching them I knew that they were also fast, according to my stop watch as fast as our best 1000cc cars. I said to myself these two cars could combine and make a pretty good size racing class. The difference in cost I bet would be minimal. We 1000cc guys buy our motors ready to race but the cost is substantial. The EchoTec guys can also buy used motors but their motors are quite a bit cheaper than ours they do have to spend money to get them ready to race. When comparing the cost of a midget rear end to a chain drive system with aluminum Midget axle and quick change sprocket carriers and many very expensive and delicate aluminum rear sprockets and heavy duty racing chain in several lengths to make labor intensive gear changes, a little easier, the Midget rear end and drive shaft is not that much more expensive and a whole lot stronger and easier to take care of. I bet you drive shaft people have never had to take your drive shaft out and boil it in grease to prep for a race.

The EchoTec is a great Division two motor. Now for a National Midget I don't think so. The bottom end like Roy says should handle the power but the head just does have enough meat on the bone to make it a very high performance motor. With forced induction maybe. When ever I have the chance to come across a motor or cylinder head that I think could be a good Midget Motor prospect, I give the ports what I like to call a "Digital Exam". My fingers are kind of short and fat. If I can get my finger through the port and get my first knuckle out past the valve seat without too much bending I think the motor has possibilities. I Can't quite do that with a EchoTec or for that matter any inline 4 cylinder engines. I guess the reasoning is for placement of the throttle body and under the hood clearance it requires an almost 90 degree bend. Now on the V6 motors with that 60 degree bend they have to place the ports at a much more optimum angle to the valve for the same reason, hood clearance and like I said earlier these are the performance engines at least for the very short time being.

Lets keep this thing going. You guys have touched on a very important topic. Fans, down here in Louisville it the race track does not have an intersection and a 30 station Beer counter you just ain't going to fill the grand stands.

Honest Dad himself

[Wayne Davis]

I think we will have a much clearer picture on this after the DuQuion and Florida races

[grinch]

Is brad Kuhn still racing ? Lost touch with his running

[LEADERS EDGE]

I think you may be able to find footage of him racing last year at Chili Bowl.

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by DAD The EchoTec is a great Division two motor. Now for a National Midget I don't think so. The bottom end like Roy says should handle the power but the head just does have enough meat on the bone to make it a very high performance motor. stands. Honest Dad himself

DAD - you may be correct about the Eco head , The HonDoo stock head CNC ported will flow 370 cfm peak , plenty of head flow to make 370 + hp & they are stacked up like cord wood here in SoCal

My proposal , take the USAC 2014 rule on the HonDoo let it run EFI 2.5 liter max give it a 50# weight break & let's let it Rip as a first step/foot in the door

Kuhn74 & xoxide are correct IMO - the under 40 crowd today grew up on EFI , they know that Tech inside & out , that is what they are interested in , that is why they drag race , drift or off road race them , they tell me allow us to race our stuff a lot of them would love to race Midgets etc, If you want them to participate give them the tools to participate & do not make it convoluted or difficult for them to participate

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by Roy Bleckert Kuhn74 & xoxide are correct IMO - the under 40 crowd today grew up on EFI , they know that Tech inside & out , that is what they are interested in , that is why they drag race , drift or off road race them , they tell me allow us to race our stuff a lot of them would love to race Midgets etc, If you want them to participate give them the tools to participate & do not make it convoluted or difficult for them to participate

I agree even though I'm as old school as it gets you can not have your head up your arse and not look at the WHOLE picture....The future is bright IF you are adaptable to change....whenever you can cut the cost of midget racing by 1/2 and still have a great show this is a good thing....

If you keep it as a stock crank/block/head with aftermarket rods, pistons (stock Equivalent) cams/springs/retainers...valves must remain stock size....these engines will push 230-250 HP and that is more then enough to put on a great show....maybe even better then the 370-420 HP engines....

[DAD]

Roy

For an old guy you think pretty clearly. For the life of me I can not see why anyone would want to take a modern high performance engine and retrofit an antique 1950 era fuel injection system to it. The story I get is it gives us better acceleration, OK, I could spend a little more and get a Motec ecm that would give me a little more room for the acceleration pump adjustment and fix that, and I still would not be filling my crankcase up with extra methanol the rest of the time that I was motoring around the race track.

There is a whole lot less voodoo involved racing with an electronics injection system than choosing the right pills as the night goes on. IT IS JUST MUCH MORE EFFICIENT DOING IT'S JOB !!!!! NO EXTRA POWER JUST MORE CONSISTENT POWER!!!!

There is a small learning curve when learning how to program. Programing should be the job of your Motor builder after you get it right it stays right until a sensor give up on you. We might even develop a cottage industry of guys writing and selling maps for different applications.

As far as drifting goes they don't have a crowd either. For some reason open wheel fans like to consider them selves smarter than your average stock car fan. We are facing an education problem for our fans. In the old days dad would take a kid to the track and explain the ins and outs of what is going on out on the race track. Today dads go one way and the kid stay home on the computer. We have fantasy racing (got me) maybe they could take on a little more education. We have racing games for computers could they do a better job of explaining slide jobs, tight, loose etc. I don't know I don't play games on the computer. I get too tied up with IOW. (I did get into computer jig saw puzzles a little but I think that is behind me now?)

Honest Dad himself

[Roy Bleckert]

My view is the HonDoo can compete with the current Midgets we have , if USAC/POWERi etc adopted something like my proposal it will help get the younger crowd interested in open wheel racing , my concern is not reinventing the wheel, it is to transition to the next generation of Racers !

[DAD]

Roy

It is them darned Toyota's causing the problem. It was almost MoPars.

Honest Dad himself