[the visitor]

Hey there .......Cobra 14 runs the series....he drives also (thats what he calls it lol..lol..) so he would be the one to talk to about how the points are added up .
I have it somewhere but I can't remember it , but Cobra has it down to a science .
Our area is big in the micro classes , especially the 600's so letting the guys put a 1000 motor in that type of chassis is an easy transition and cost effective way to move into the class .
Just bolt in a motor, buy a couple of tires and your in and then you can experiment .
You can run 13" wheels with a 16 sq wing on a micro chassis , Thats what this year's champion runs .
You can run 10" wheels and a 12 sq wing on a micro chassis .
Or you can run a upright .
There are a handful of uprights that run in the class , sometimes there are more of them than the mirco chassis and sometimes there are more of the micro chassis .
We are in the land of Henchcraft and with Hyper's new upright being built just up the road , we should see a few more this coming year.
It's a good mix and they are competitive.....
Enjoy....The Visitor

[DAD]

Originally Posted by DAD Cobra I like your idea about weighing passing points. An old time racer named, "Elmer Davis" once told me that the closer you get to the front of the pack the harder the cars become to pass. Honest Dad himself

Cobra

OK! So the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I think I have read that statement before. Well How does the passing point chart work?

I know that Sandy Lowe and Don Moore discussed the thing for the Chili Bowl before. I have never found the chart in my program that i bought at The Chili Bowl before and have always felt that it was just a way to get the favored driver and team up to where they need to be in the race.

If anybody has a chart could they post it so we all could see how the thing works, Cobra I would very much like to see your chart.

There I have finally done it, I asked a DUMB QUESTION.

Honest Dad himself

PS. Bet I ain't the only dumb uninformed about passing points racer out there.

[darnall]

Pretty sure this is the passing point system the Chilibowl uses to determine who moves to the qualifiers out of the heats and who goes straight to the back of the C....Then I think the qualifiers just give finish points that get combined with heat points to determine qualifying night feature lineups.... 2 years ago I could have told you precisely how it all works but I haven't really thought about it much since then so it has somewhat escaped me.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by darnall Pretty sure this is the passing point system the Chilibowl uses to determine who moves to the qualifiers out of the heats and who goes straight to the back of the C....Then I think the qualifiers just give finish points that get combined with heat points to determine qualifying night feature lineups.... 2 years ago I could have told you precisely how it all works but I haven't really thought about it much since then so it has somewhat escaped me.

Thanks Darnall

The passing points thing is just a little complicated. I do however see several advantages for our type of racing.

First >>>>It doubles the chance for a racer to win a feature and get a picture taken, an important thing for almost all racers.

Second>>>It would still pay the hard chargers for their efforts in getting to the front of the pack. With this type of pay out one could win one of the races from the pole and still come up short for the night with a poor performance in the other race. By the same token a racer could finish well in both races and get payed quite well.

Look at all the points one could gain in their race for championship.

Honest Dad himself

[McInturff Racing]

Originally Posted by Cobra 14 A Basic Equation that creates FUN Lastly, but be no means least, yes it’s EGO. The bottom line is mankind has ego. Some people have bigger egos than others but in racing, people’s egos become more of a negative than a positive. I have seen teams want to “step up” classes based on nothing more than ego. No thought of cost. No thought of value. No thought of FUN. When a hobby becomes a 2nd job and for some a 3rd job, it tends to lose the FUN factor. Look around the ”big car” pits and you can see the pressure. (Try to find the smiles, let alone laughter.) The costs that drive the expectation of performance from sponsors, family and friends gets to the point that FUN becomes unobtainable. The cost of competitiveness only ever increases as ego becomes the driving factor. This cycle of disconnect repeats itself through generations. Each racer thinks that he can do it cheaper and better than the last one and because of their “unique” talent, will produce better results. A 305 wants to be a 358/360. A 358/360 wants to be a 410. A 410 wants to join the All Stars and an All Star want to be an Outlaw. At those levels FUN is the least thing on the teams mind. The hobby ceases to exist and it becomes a full time job that only a very select few can make a living at. Below All Star/ WOO level and with egos in check the reality becomes that racing is a costly hobby at best.

I've been watching this post with interest but keeping my mouth shut up to now since I am not running a mini this year but I totally disagree with this line of logic. I moved up from minis to a 360 this year and have been having more fun than ever. I may not run a ton of races and I may not be a weekly contender for a win....yet, but it certainly hasn't sucked all the fun out of racing. Me and my crew have had more fun, smiled more and argued less this year than since I got back into racing. And it certainly wasn't for lack if adversity and issues. I made more friends and had more folks bending over backwards to help me and take time out of their own busy pit schedule any time I had a problem than ever before. Like you said, open wheel racing at a level below full time WoO\All Stars for the most part a hobby. I don't know anyone who participates in a hobby for anything but fun. Sure, there may be pressure, long work hours on the car and to support the addiction but if it wasn't still fun no one would do it. To dismiss all "big car" drivers as miserable slaves to their ego is wildly inaccurate. And sure, there is the desire to move up. I would love to throw a 410 in my car and go run with the big boys. Not going to lie, part of it is ego but an even bigger part is because I think it would be FUN. Who wouldn't get a kick out of being able to say to their grandkids "yep, I was in the King's Royal once" or to know that they had the chance to mix it up with their hero(s) once or twice. You may be in your happy place with a "little car" and that's awesome, to each their own, but don't think for a minute that big car=misery!

Don't even get me started on cost. It was actually cheaper for me this year in the big car than last year in a mini sprint when I looked at the spreadsheet at the end of the year..

Back to watching with interest in case I decide to keep the mini and just run both next season.

[DAD]

Mac

The addiction of racing is a misery weather it be go karts or Indy car, we all suffer from the same disease. Wonder if there is a twelve step program out there for us. I guess till I find that program I'll just keep on messing with these little cars and being miserable. They are so much easier to push around than them big old cars. I guess because of my charming personality I can't even pay a crew to go race with me.

Honest Dad himself

ps Don't give up your mini sprint.

[Cobra 14]

MC..

Sorry. It was never my intent to upset those that are in a bigger car and having fun.. as you said to each their own.

I'm glad that your ego is obviously in check enough to appreciate the fun that you are having with your crew ( less arguing is a good clue that something was amiss in your small car experience) .. You are obviously in racing for fun and that's the message I was trying to get across.

I hope people don't take my post the wrong way.. I love the fact that people want a bigger challenge...and on our off nights, I go and watch 410 racing and enjoy it ... especially hanging out with friends..

Wanting a bigger challenge is natural... even the people that climb mountains want to climb Everest...that being said... many end up losing toes /feet to frost bite... as long as people take the challenge knowing that the sacrifices, be it toes/feet or in racing the "fun" factor then more power to them....

I know that some "big car teams" are having "fun".... and yes everything is proportional, the more you have the more you can afford to spend. My point being we shouldn't be trying to make the small car classes spend as much as the bigger cars, especially since at this level it is and should only ever be a "hobby" that is FUN.

DAD.. See attached for the matrix.

[McInturff Racing]

Cobra:
Not offended or upset at all. Just don't want folks (you included) to think that the move to a big car sucks all the fun out of things. And I totally agree with the cost issue. The out of control costs with the minis was a big factor in my decision to buy the big car.

Dad:
Only problem is that if they developed a 12 step program we would all be too worried about being the first one to the 12th step that we wouldn't get anything out of it. If they ever do come out with the program...I bet I could beat ya to the finish!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by McInturff Racing Cobra: Not offended or upset at all. Just don't want folks (you included) to think that the move to a big car sucks all the fun out of things. And I totally agree with the cost issue. The out of control costs with the minis was a big factor in my decision to buy the big car. Dad: Only problem is that if they developed a 12 step program we would all be too worried about being the first one to the 12th step that we wouldn't get anything out of it. If they ever do come out with the program...I bet I could beat ya to the finish!

Mac

NO WAY >>>>could you beat me. I'm already working out a deal right now that will let me bypass at least two steps. Not sure it will pass tec>>> BUT>>>> they didn't say I couldn't, so.

Honest Dad himself

[pjohnson]

I have noticed you all keep acting like that everyone with a built engine is rich and gonna ruin the sport high dollar teams. That is not totaly true. my engine has been ruled out around here. o i can race but cant be scored BS thats a waste of a nights fun. My engine is old i dont have any idea when it was rebuilt but it does run very good and is in good shape. i have been told by someone on this board its a boat anchor cool. My engine with shipping cost me 1300.00 dollars now they say im going to have to go buy a stock engine which will cost more. A newer stock engine prolly makes much better power than my old one but i already have the old one. Its ok though i had a great time redoing this car from the ground up more fun than the drama of mini-sprint racing. so car is for sale. I think i would rather restore old open wheel cars lots more fun lol. By the way i see your point of trying to keep it affordable but this has been tried n racing over and over and i still dont see any affordable racing. Someone is always going to out money you. In todays racing parents are so bent in thinking thier kid is the next Nascar superstar or next supercross champion that they will mortage the family to do it. I have a friend doing the same thing now he owes everyone of us money that he can never repay. Affordable racing no such thing not even radio control racing. If you want to race spend the money and race if you want to just fight about affordable racing that will never happen get a computor lol. I love all racing no matter what the cost is and if i cant afford to compete i go watch and support the racers. I do like the Ecotech midgets it just makes more cars. But my Favorite is the old VW midget. I have a midget also it was a USAC car at one point but i cant compete there but i dont want them to go to stock engines so i can come play. Restoring may become my new game in open wheel i enjoy that. Your car count is not just about engines its about making the racing enjoyable and a great day or night at the track. Fighting and screaming about whos cheating and who has more money and we need to send them home if we dont like thier car does nothing to make the sport better. We were told at Salem last year by a dad that his kid was a professional. lol i have never seen or heard of a professional minisprint driver and running weekly at salem REALLY. By the way this kid could not drive a golf cart safely and when he screwed up the dad blamed everyone else. I got to the point where friday were more fun working in my shop and stop even watching salem races. I also have a friend who owns a salem car with a new driver. They did well but were blamed for everything that this kid did wrong. This friend has just Bought more cars from Wayne Davis i hope this dont mean he is considered a high dollar team cause they are not. but they will be strong next year with good drivers and good setups. (the most important part that complainers miss)