Asked again?

8/15/08, 5:14 PM

I asked this question before - it may have gotten deleted when the board was having trouble or no one bothered to answer. Anyway, I couldn't find the original post when I checked back for an answer. The question is did USAC change any of its rules to prohibit the Outlaws from competiting back in day of Pancho Carter? Maybe one of the veteran posters can be of help. BTW this board is awesome and I lurk here quite a bit. :help:

sprinter25 · 8/15/08, 5:23 PM

It was more the other way around...the Outlaws put rules in place to prohibit the Outlaw drivers from competing in any other show, usually within 48 hours or within 250 miles of an Outlaw show. It was done by Ted Johnson to "protect" those tracks/promoters who scheduled a WoO race and keep the WoO drivers' under his control. You'd get penalized points and tow money; how much? Well, that was at TJ's discretion....

USAC rules usually limited WoO participation, with USAC not running wings, and running for much smaller purses than the WoO - even back then....

8/15/08, 5:53 PM

Didn't the engine size have something to do with it also back then? Just throwing it out there.

nonwingfan33 · 8/15/08, 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Kidd

Didn't the engine size have something to do with it also back then? Just throwing it out there.

I think USAC had a 305 limit then. So yes that would limit some.

D.O. · 8/15/08, 7:02 PM

Back in the day of Russ Clendenen a USAC driver had to run a certain amount of races an do well before Russ would sign his ticket that would let him go to INDY.
USAC drivers couldn't run any where else, many did and use other names.
That was in the 60's

USAC then used TP's to let other drivers run. USAC controlled sprint cars with their rules. Between the 305 rule, 350 rule, 410 rule and weight adjustment to allow v-6's.

Back in those days you only had one car for dirt and pavement. After a while some folkes began trying offset uprights with the motors lowered. Paul Leffler probally built the best, fastest and good looking of those cars. From the stands you had to look hard to tell it was different.
After a while some folkes played with rear engined sprint cars, the old owners didn't like it and most were POS's and dangerous too. USAC dumped them.

Glen Neibel and the Hoffmans took advantage of the v-6 weight rules and had some very nice pavement only cars. USAC took a lot of the advantage away from the v-6's and most returned to v-8's.

The change to special built pavement cars took over and that was the main ***** about the rear engfine cars. Why own 2 cars, couldn't afford one.

So that's part of the story.

:dologob:

Charles Nungester · 8/15/08, 7:41 PM

I remember RacerRob saying something about the Buick V-6 was Buick controled and they would only let them run 6 nights between rebuilds because they were running about as tight as many of todays midgets in copression and RPM

Rob H. If this is untrue or anything you can add about that program. We'd apreciate it.

Chuck

8/15/08, 10:46 PM

I remember those v-6's. The last time I seen one run Johnny Parsons was at the wheel. Can't remember the number but I believe it was a yellow car. I believe it was at Kokomo to.

Charles Nungester · 8/15/08, 10:48 PM

Probably Neibels? *SP?*

Dyno Don · 8/16/08, 8:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester

Probably Neibels? *SP?*

Didn't Tony Elliot run this car in The Little 500 this year?

8/15/08, 7:41 PM	#6 Re: Asked again?
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 21,239	I remember RacerRob saying something about the Buick V-6 was Buick controled and they would only let them run 6 nights between rebuilds because they were running about as tight as many of todays midgets in copression and RPM Rob H. If this is untrue or anything you can add about that program. We'd apreciate it. Chuck __________________ Charles Nungester

8/15/08, 10:48 PM	#8 Re: Asked again?
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 21,239	Probably Neibels? SP? __________________ Charles Nungester

8/15/08, 5:14 PM	#1 Asked again?
Tripcrwn Posts: n/a	I asked this question before - it may have gotten deleted when the board was having trouble or no one bothered to answer. Anyway, I couldn't find the original post when I checked back for an answer. The question is did USAC change any of its rules to prohibit the Outlaws from competiting back in day of Pancho Carter? Maybe one of the veteran posters can be of help. BTW this board is awesome and I lurk here quite a bit. :help:

8/15/08, 5:23 PM	#2 Re: Asked again?
sprinter25 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 547	It was more the other way around...the Outlaws put rules in place to prohibit the Outlaw drivers from competing in any other show, usually within 48 hours or within 250 miles of an Outlaw show. It was done by Ted Johnson to "protect" those tracks/promoters who scheduled a WoO race and keep the WoO drivers' under his control. You'd get penalized points and tow money; how much? Well, that was at TJ's discretion.... USAC rules usually limited WoO participation, with USAC not running wings, and running for much smaller purses than the WoO - even back then....

8/15/08, 5:53 PM	#3 Re: Asked again?
Joe Kidd Posts: n/a	Didn't the engine size have something to do with it also back then? Just throwing it out there.

8/15/08, 7:02 PM	#5 Re: Asked again?
D.O. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,915	Back in the day of Russ Clendenen a USAC driver had to run a certain amount of races an do well before Russ would sign his ticket that would let him go to INDY. USAC drivers couldn't run any where else, many did and use other names. That was in the 60's USAC then used TP's to let other drivers run. USAC controlled sprint cars with their rules. Between the 305 rule, 350 rule, 410 rule and weight adjustment to allow v-6's. Back in those days you only had one car for dirt and pavement. After a while some folkes began trying offset uprights with the motors lowered. Paul Leffler probally built the best, fastest and good looking of those cars. From the stands you had to look hard to tell it was different. After a while some folkes played with rear engined sprint cars, the old owners didn't like it and most were POS's and dangerous too. USAC dumped them. Glen Neibel and the Hoffmans took advantage of the v-6 weight rules and had some very nice pavement only cars. USAC took a lot of the advantage away from the v-6's and most returned to v-8's. The change to special built pavement cars took over and that was the main ***** about the rear engfine cars. Why own 2 cars, couldn't afford one. So that's part of the story. :dologob:

8/15/08, 10:46 PM	#7 Re: Asked again?
Joe Kidd Posts: n/a	I remember those v-6's. The last time I seen one run Johnny Parsons was at the wheel. Can't remember the number but I believe it was a yellow car. I believe it was at Kokomo to.