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10/19/20, 4:42 PM   #11
captrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schaub View Post
Dan Gurney's now infamous "White Paper" started the rift and the progression of more pavement racing and the disdain for two radical chassis's ultimately lead to it.

It could have all be stopped in 1961 had USAC banned the Cooper Climax at Indy.

Correct, then many of those owners who complained about needing to have 2 different kinds of cars went out and bought Formula 5000 cars for that short lived series. In summary road racers took over. A great opportunity was lost to make the American series truly unique and a challenge like no other.
 
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10/20/20, 10:46 PM   #12
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
Hubie
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I would actually welcome the Silver Crown cars being added into the Indy Car point chase. It would be super interesting to allow someone chasing points to take to the dirt tracks in an attempt to capture the Championship. It would also open some avenues to "climb the ladder" to some really deserving talent.

like Chase Brisco

or several other very talented daredevils!

It is extremely unfair to both the driver and car owner. The car owner has tons of money wrapped up in equipment and commitments to sponsors (to the tune of millions) now turn a Dave Darland or Tony Elliot (Rest in Peace) or Tracy Hines lose in a this machine and tell them "just keep it off the wall" while running against the likes of Castro Neves or some other hobo who has raced rear engine stuff since they were in short pants. Jacob Wilson had an Indy Light ride several years ago. Never ran one, qualified second (!) Stacked it up lap one, turn one. Cost him a ton of money. Steve Chassie put an Eagle on the outside front row at Phoenix one year. He crashed. Nobody is as brave as Steve. You have to have miles and miles of experience. Nobody is "developed".
 
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10/20/20, 11:20 PM   #13
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
jdull99
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With next year's Indycar schedule set with only 5 ovals, the time is right for them to add some Silver Crown races back on! (It will never happen tho, I know, but it's a fun idea...)

James Davison has become Mr Versatile, running Indycars, NASCAR (like qualifying on the same wknd, but I think he was black balled from the media...his Cup owner has made some waves) AND (most importantly/specific to this discussion) SILVER CROWN! I know he has finished at least like 7th at Salam or Winchester or smthn of the such...plus I think he ran tulsa last year too...so ya, guys like him would do ok in decent cars in any of the biggest series...I hope he continues with the Silver Crown exploits in 2021. Time will tell. Either way, he is the answer to a neat trivia question; who ran the Indy 500, Daytona cup race, Chili Bowl and Silver Crown races in 2020...
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10/21/20, 6:20 AM   #14
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
Hubie
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I believe Davidson was a test driver for the McLaren F1 team. They don't pass those opportunities out, even if your the boyfriend of some very rich and connected family.

I was at that Joe James/Pat O'Connor race. The bashing of Sebastian Bourdais by the track announcer pissed me off to know end. For some reason he tossed out Bourdais name, must have forgot this guy had a HUGE crash while qualifying at Indianapolis. A "See Jesus" moment and yet he was back in a car in a super short time. You want to call someone out for being a piker fine, but it ain't Bourdais.

Why in the world someone would run for such low bucks is beyond Me. Being around racing long enough I know they would race for ham sandwiches if need be.
 
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10/21/20, 7:56 AM   #15
Blackduce
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We still have not named the king pin who started to get the dirt cars out. So the foreign drivers will take over the seats and stay here with the dirt cars removed.
And come they did with the factory teams foreign driver's at Indy. They just stayed here and the crowds just dwindling away.
So much confusing around there.
They even told us we had to put doors on the men's restroom stalls. That were there for decades. Rear engine cars were coming any way. But the choices management made did not see the big picture coming.

Lynn
 
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10/21/20, 6:38 PM   #16
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
Hubie
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That's some old school hate there, raggin' on "Mr. Monaco"!!!

Technology is hard to stop. I somewhat agree with the hobo's getting the Factory DOHC stuff, but then again they were mounted in factory efforts (Lotus and Lola) and Hansgen getting killed.... Hill wasn't even assigned until that happened. AAA/USAC had their own "caste system" and the car owners played in that arena as well. I'm a bit more modern!

I'm pretty sure we could "bench race" for hours!
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Last edited by Hubie; 10/21/20 at 6:40 PM.
 
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10/21/20, 11:00 PM   #17
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
jdull99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubie View Post
I believe Davidson was a test driver for the McLaren F1 team. They don't pass those opportunities out, even if your the boyfriend of some very rich and connected family.

I was at that Joe James/Pat O'Connor race. The bashing of Sebastian Bourdais by the track announcer pissed me off to know end. For some reason he tossed out Bourdais name, must have forgot this guy had a HUGE crash while qualifying at Indianapolis. A "See Jesus" moment and yet he was back in a car in a super short time. You want to call someone out for being a piker fine, but it ain't Bourdais.

Why in the world someone would run for such low bucks is beyond Me. Being around racing long enough I know they would race for ham sandwiches if need be.
& Sebas is like the only guy to win FOUR Indycar type champs in a row (CART tho, & they didn't race at Indy then; but he did once during that span and no one can dispute how badaz those CART cars woulda been to drive...)...he bested Ted Horn's three in a row (AJ and none of them ever did it even...)
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10/22/20, 9:37 AM   #18
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
ISF
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I too, would like to know exactly who was the prime instigator of the total separation of dirt racing and pavement/road course racing way back in those days. Gurney's holy white papers have been mentioned and the Cooper Climax have shouldered some blame but no specific person or group has been identified.

The names traditionally most mentioned in this regard are Penske and Patrick who undoubtedly applied more than their share of pressure to abandon dirt racing as a viable part of championship auto racing.

It would be interesting to learn the real story in it's entirety.
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10/22/20, 10:16 AM   #19
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
mc/rider
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A few suspension tweeks and aero changes I see no reason for Indy Cars not to be racing on mile dirt Ill take my fantasy one step further and add Terre Haute and Eldora. From my keyboard to Rogers eyes
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10/22/20, 12:32 PM   #20
Re: Origin of "Silver Crown"
richie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISF View Post
I too, would like to know exactly who was the prime instigator of the total separation of dirt racing and pavement/road course racing way back in those days. Gurney's holy white papers have been mentioned and the Cooper Climax have shouldered some blame but no specific person or group has been identified.
Marlboro sponsorship came aboard in 1971 for the USAC championship trail. Dirt tracks were subsequently dropped as an appeasement to the demands of the sponsorship. Dirt was taken off the National championship schedule and spun-off into its own "Dirt Championship" division, now known as Silver Crown.

Marlboro wanted exclusivity on their sponsorship of USAC as the only cigarette signage in the series. However, the Viceroy cars came along with the Vel's Parnelli Jones team the following year in 1972. Marlboro wasn't happy with that aspect and left USAC after just one year. However, the dirt tracks never came back on board the "IndyCar" schedule, more than likely due to the now "higher-end" sponsors in the sport who shied away from the dirt tracks, which did not have the amenities to cater to what the potential big time sponsors were looking for at the time in the early 1970s, as compared to say, Formula One.

Also, not ironically, Winston Cigarettes became the NASCAR Grand National Series title sponsor the same year as Marlboro went to USAC in 1971 - it was the very same year that NASCAR also took dirt tracks off the "Cup" schedule.

Cliff's note version. It was Marlboro who kickstarted this whole deal.
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Last edited by richie; 10/22/20 at 12:39 PM.
 
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