[racefan20]

Originally Posted by Kart#51 I'll ask this question. Was the same lab used by WRG and USAC for the initial positive tests? If that is the case, and this lab is "delinquent" in their process wouldn't you think the Late Model and Big Block guys getting tested by WRG group have already screamed and said this lab is invalid? Maybe this lab is a better lab and more sophisticated at testing? Maybe they caught something that others have yet to catch? Lets remember, Late Models are the Kings of tire prep in the mainstream dirt racing world. Also, my other question, is that if there were 4 positive samples and they took 6 samples(top three each night is my understanding) what happened to the two that didn't test positive by the "invalid" lab? Was their tire prepped less or just a different prep or was it untreated? There in lies the question, keep in mind if 6 samples were taken not all failed, which makes this whole situation more shady vs. just a bad testing lab. There was someone earlier in this thread that said their tire passed whether it was at Ocala or Volusia is irrelevant if the same initial lab was used, which means there are tires that are meeting the spec baseline. I"m sure Messeraull and Leary were both tested from Volusia and neither of them showed a positive test. Again, if the same lab was used and the 4 positives were invalid then wouldn't all tires tested with the lab be positive? Just using logic, This feel like the Ray Lewis scenario. All evidence points to a guilty verdict and he was acquitted so I guess it doesn't matter, right?

At Bubba there were 5 cars among the top 3 for the 3 nights.

[dustbowl]

Some of the samples were weeks later from the race shops of the teams involved.

[digdug]

Could USAC require team to purchase (new tire (s) ) at track, be stamped and record serial numbers. (Karts do this at big events). the hardness could be checked during the night (takes seconds) and compared to competitors. In today's age, things like shouldn'd happen in a National Series. When it's a NOS series and NOS driver involved, doesn't look good. I don't know the details, but if Kunz and other teams are willing to not run for a championship now, that says something.

Nobody wants to race in a series when someone get's caught cheating and nothing happens. (fuel, motor and tires should never be messed with). Maybe the teams were not cheating, I don't know. At a local track in socal, a guy that won every week tires tested altered, he got a vacation for year, said he would never race there again, guess what he races there now. He swore it must of been what he cleaned the tires..

My $.02 fix, buy tires at track, if not, put in the rules, tires only washed with soap and water, check hardness after main event and qualifying, and random times. No shiny stuff on tires, even armour all, etc.

[flagboy55]

If I’m not mistaken USAC is having an open meeting to prove their point. I’m sure all the accuser’s of foul play will be there

[Hamby454]

Exactly, this and the lack of information presented from the beginning are what raised the eyebrows. They could not test the same samples 4 different times and consider that a fair test. It’s also not fair to go back at a later date and request more samples from the teams. This is, and will remain a dark cloud. Frankly the only way to truly know is to test every car in the A-main. No series will pay for those test. What if of all the cars n the field only those 4 test came back bad. Would the tune be different then. What if they did dq them and awarded say 4th place the win. After 2 weeks you can’t ask to check the tires he had in at Ocala so what if he was illegal. The simple fix is a durometer on all lr and rr tires before qualifying, heats, and features. Then take samples from the top 10 after each feature and send off the top 3. If you get back bad results you already have samples from the next guy in line to send off for testing. Unfortunately tires can’t be a grey area. It has to be black and white. Doesn’t matter if the lab screwed the pooch or not. Every tire went to the same lab so something was different. If the lab isn’t reputable get a new lab and stick with them. All of f this should be common knowledge. The crickets that surrounded this is what raised the eyebrows.

[Hamby454]

Originally Posted by flagboy55 If I’m not mistaken USAC is having an open meeting to prove their point. I’m sure all the accuser’s of foul play will be there

They are having an “owners meeting” not open

[PJ Wright]

It's seems to me the post Levi era is not off to a great start.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Hamby454 They are having an “owners meeting” not open

Good, so know nothings like me aren't muddying the water.

The thing that bothers me most about the whole thing is you hear for years and from many teams, We want to race for more purse. Well by the rush to judgement and for whatever reason they chose to do that And they can, their car, their $$$ behind it. It jeopardizes most of the higher purse races out there today.

[Wayne Davis]

I have read every commit, some twice.. in my "opinion" ... yes we all got them... here are my tire rules for midget, 600's and sprint car series

7.1 Tires: Any tire or manufacture/brand is allowed, must DUROMOTOR RR-45 before and after race...there will be a 10 minute cool down period if tire punches below 45. If either LR or RR is are below by just 1 point you are DQed. No Sample will be taken and all rear tires will be checked before every race, in the event of qualifying they will be checked before and after.

I am not a fan of doping AT ALL, but I do understand especially when a smaller team needs to treat an old tire or a hand me down... when we (my son and I) where racing karts you had to do it...Mark Capehart here in Jacksonville had SO F'ing many different preps it was unreal. Prep from inside/sidewall/outside had heat boxes and rollers hell I thought he was a chemist professor, or a new "cake" decorator. Mark had prep that smelled EXACTLY like cake, I kid you not.

I will say this....USAC like'm/hate'm did what they needed to do. Right/Wrong/Indifferent they (USAC) came to this conclusion and UNTIL you put yourself in their shoes you have NO absolutely NONE, of a reason to criticize...so get over it... but the great thing about the USA, everyone is allowed your own "OPINION" and no one can take that from ya

Please go support the racetracks in your area because it is getting tougher and tougher to travel to see races with the skyrocketing fuel prices!!! Love ALL Y'ALL

[racefan20]

Originally Posted by Hamby454 Exactly, this and the lack of information presented from the beginning are what raised the eyebrows. They could not test the same samples 4 different times and consider that a fair test. It’s also not fair to go back at a later date and request more samples from the teams. This is, and will remain a dark cloud. Frankly the only way to truly know is to test every car in the A-main. No series will pay for those test. What if of all the cars n the field only those 4 test came back bad. Would the tune be different then. What if they did dq them and awarded say 4th place the win. After 2 weeks you can’t ask to check the tires he had in at Ocala so what if he was illegal. The simple fix is a durometer on all lr and rr tires before qualifying, heats, and features. Then take samples from the top 10 after each feature and send off the top 3. If you get back bad results you already have samples from the next guy in line to send off for testing. Unfortunately tires can’t be a grey area. It has to be black and white. Doesn’t matter if the lab screwed the pooch or not. Every tire went to the same lab so something was different. If the lab isn’t reputable get a new lab and stick with them. All of f this should be common knowledge. The crickets that surrounded this is what raised the eyebrows.

I think you are on the right track. As a matter of fact if you durometer each time a car goes on the track(except hot laps) then it shouldnt matter what they put on their tires as long as they test within the specified range of hardness/softness. No testing required.