[ColtonHardy41]

Apexin, for one Canyon in Arizona is a 1/3 mile track not a 3/8's. I just raced there last week in my 600 Micro. It is completely different from a sprint car. My micro is a lay down, the motor hangs out to the left. There is NO MINISPRINT (Uprights) in the state of Arizona. An upright the motor sits right in the middle of the car and the driver is sitting upright like in a sprint car and midget, but the upright is chain driven while a sprint car is not. You just can't swap the motor out between a minisprint and sprint car. You can change the motor from a 410 sprinter to a 360 sprinter but not to a MINISPRINT. I've also been in a non-wing and wing sprint car, they all sound and feel different. A wing driver can't always go run non wing and vise versa.


The 410 last year in November ran a very low 13 in qualifying while my 600 micro non-wing ran approximately a 15 sec lap time. The lap times are completely different, so are the weights of the cars, horsepower and torque each car produce. A micro will not be able to compete with a sprint car/midget and any track. Period end of discussion.

Thanks A Sim and Dirt Track Racer

[KJHolley]

They have an Ecotech class at the Shootout and 25 cars show up every year and the cars are much slower.

Some of those same "midgets" run the Chili Bowl and they are field fillers. They are just there to say they ran the Chili Bowl.

To my knowledge the highest finishing Ecotech this year was Steve Schaberg... He ran 9th in the 2nd F-main.

Comparing what you guys are trying to pass as midgets to what midgets really are would be like trying to pass high school baseball as major league baseball... Are the fields and distances the same?? For the most part yes(Bases, pitching mound)... What's the difference??? The speed of the game. Just like in this deal. If I spent my money going to the event expecting to see the midgets, and saw what you guys are calling midgets, I wouldn't stay.

Just an honest fan here.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by KJHolley They have an Ecotech class at the Shootout and 25 cars show up every year and the cars are much slower. Some of those same "midgets" run the Chili Bowl and they are field fillers. They are just there to say they ran the Chili Bowl. To my knowledge the highest finishing Ecotech this year was Steve Schaberg... He ran 9th in the 2nd F-main. Comparing what you guys are trying to pass as midgets to what midgets really are would be like trying to pass high school baseball as major league baseball... Are the fields and distances the same?? For the most part yes(Bases, pitching mound)... What's the difference??? The speed of the game. Just like in this deal. If I spent my money going to the event expecting to see the midgets, and saw what you guys are calling midgets, I wouldn't stay. Just an honest fan here.

KJ

Perhaps a better comparison would be a Race Saver 305 Sprint car to a WOL 410 Sprint Car. Would you agree that is a pretty good analogy. You Know Apples and Oranges so to speak. Why do you insist on calling both cars Sprint Cars something is obviously wrong in the reasoning as you see it.

You are not a real race fan>>>>> just smug and opinionated. But come to think of it folks aren't too friendly toward the 305's either. Maybe we could raise your front gate admission to $100.00 a seat so the track owner could afford to pay $10,000.00 to win on a Saturday Night Race and perhaps we can furnish you the type of race car you wish. How many people could afford a ticket every weekend? Racers are just like the people out front, money is tight, race tracks and race teams are folding every day.

Go get your computer tuned up and go do some sim racing. LIVE YOUR DREAM BUD. Admission and car ownership is very affordable ENJOY!!!!!

Maybe were you to decide to buy and support a race car, you might get a handle from the racer point of view. Many people make small fortune's racing>>>>>All they need is a large fortune to start out with.

Check out the front gate admission at Du Quoin?

Honest Dad himself

[bsmith8]

Originally Posted by apexin Some of these people act like everyone was just running around the inside berm until the high hp midget engines came along. I'm here to tell you that 600 micros bust the cushion at little Belleville every Powri race with just 150hp. It doesn't take huge $$ hp to have a good race. Out here in AZ we see 410 usac races, 360 southwest races and even a lower budget class that some run with a carb all running on the 3/8 mile at canyon. Some guys will run all three classes at different times of the year with an engine swap. I still call all of them sprint cars. If you came out and watched them hot lap, you would be hard pressed to tell which class is on the track. It's tough to see 1 second per lap when big ballers are out there running them all deep into the corner WFO!

I could tell

[bsmith8]

Originally Posted by xoxide Bsmith8, You must be rather dense.... My "d2", "ecotec". Whatever the hell you want to call it midget has the driveline running between my legs and must be push started by a push truck. no starter, no clutch. as do most "insert name here" midgets. if your experience comes from SIM racing you have no valid opinion on this matter. If you're going to slam a class atleast have your facts straight lol.

Oxide you are correct. I am a little dense. I have hit y head to many times at Eldora. Winchester, Salem, IRP, Rushville ,Peru and a thousand other tracks across the USA.

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by KJHolley They have an Ecotech class at the Shootout and 25 cars show up every year and the cars are much slower. Some of those same "midgets" run the Chili Bowl and they are field fillers. They are just there to say they ran the Chili Bowl. To my knowledge the highest finishing Ecotech this year was Steve Schaberg... He ran 9th in the 2nd F-main. Comparing what you guys are trying to pass as midgets to what midgets really are would be like trying to pass high school baseball as major league baseball... Are the fields and distances the same?? For the most part yes(Bases, pitching mound)... What's the difference??? The speed of the game. Just like in this deal. If I spent my money going to the event expecting to see the midgets, and saw what you guys are calling midgets, I wouldn't stay. Just an honest fan here.

KJ and all the rest...DAMN IT MAN can you not open your eyes and see!!

Chevrolet has the Corvette @ 100 grand and the Cobalt @ under 20 grand or they even have the BASE Camaro @ 25 grand or the SS(super sport) @ 40 grand

WHAT THE HELL IS THE DIFFERENCE??????

They are all Chevrolets

[TFortune39]

I run a lightning sprint (1000cc upright mini sprint) and I don't think that they should be called midgets because they're not. I believe that anything with a chain drive is not a midget. However an ecotech or focus is a midget. Just because a guy doesn't have the sponsorship or money to put a high dollar motor in his "MIDGET" doesn't make it any less of one. That guys car means just as much to him as the next guy. He puts blood, sweat, and money in his car every week. Every track and every racer needs fans. They're what keeps tracks open and racers racing, but for a fan or "only sim racers" to say that an ecotech isn't worthy of calling themselves midgets is BULL****!!!! That is why they're out there racing and you're on the wooden bleachers!!!! I hope that actual racers will agree with this and if not oh well I tried.

[riskybrisky5]

A little history on Indiana Openwheel. Most probably do not know that Bill Gardner started this site way back when as USACfans.com I believe was the name. It was basically started from sim racing the old ratbag computer sprint car game. Bill had leagues and a lot of us guys got together weekly and competed as sim racers. I believe without sim racing this site may not even be here. I have been a sim racer since it started and I believe it is a great option for fans and racers alike to wheel there favorite type car around there favorite track. I have developed many friendships through sim racing and Bill Gardner was one of those friends!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by TFortune39 I run a lightning sprint (1000cc upright mini sprint) and I don't think that they should be called midgets because they're not. I believe that anything with a chain drive is not a midget. However an ecotech or focus is a midget. Just because a guy doesn't have the sponsorship or money to put a high dollar motor in his "MIDGET" doesn't make it any less of one. That guys car means just as much to him as the next guy. He puts blood, sweat, and money in his car every week. Every track and every racer needs fans. They're what keeps tracks open and racers racing, but for a fan or "only sim racers" to say that an ecotech isn't worthy of calling themselves midgets is BULL****!!!! That is why they're out there racing and you're on the wooden bleachers!!!! I hope that actual racers will agree with this and if not oh well I tried.

Troy

We have been racing the Midget chassis chain drive motorcycle powered cars for years. When we started they were 600cc for us, 1200cc for our larger brothers. Our name was 600cc Mini Sprint and racing without wings was not an option. I did not question the name, it sounded good to me, and all was well with the world. We raced in this state for years and where perfectly happy.

About 10 years ago or so A bright Canadian Guy came up with the Idea to change our name to Lightning Sprint. That upset my apple cart having called them Mini Sprint for so long Lightning did not make any sense to me and it still doesn't. 1000cc Sprint or 1200cc Sprint made just A LITTLE SENSE but Lightning NO WAY!!!

I did a little research and a lot of soul searching and I decided that not only was "Lightning" a poor Adjective (vague) but on top of everything else "Sprint" was a very poor name for our particular race car. When I hear Sprint Car I think of a large 90 inch wheel base open wheel race car powered by a 300 to 400+ CID motor. When I hear lightning I see a bright flash in the sky. None of these remind me of what we race. When I researched the Min Sprint what I found a Midget chassis dimension based race car powered by a very powerful for it's size Motorcycle engine that was driven by a chain as opposed to a drive shaft. Is the reason people have classified this little race car a Sprint car because it is chain driven?? I have never seen a chain drive sprint car and I am not sure they even make a chain large enough to hook one of these monster tired and overly powered race cars up.

We are in fact Midget cars with chain drive, so. Like I said I have been around a long time and have seen change in Chassis design and engine design. At one time we were one of the very few Mini Sprint racers that raced with a regular Midget design frame. Our first car was a Beast Chassis>>the second was a Stealth chassis>>the last several race cars we have been racing have been an FSC chassis that were specifically designed to work well with chain drive.

Many people started out with Mini Sprint chassis Bailey>>ERC>>Stallard. Now after many years most newer Mini Sprints also have followed us by using the Midget Chassis as a base to build from.

If you should win the race in Du Quoin your trophy will be out of place with your others. It will say Division II Midget Winner. You will have beat out several Stock block shaft drive Midgets as well as the Kenyon Midgets. You will probably however want to display this Trophy on your desk.

Times change >>>people change>>> and racing cars >>>should change!!!
Motor cycle engines will continue to improve for the sake of Motorcycle Riders and not for four wheel racers. They are becoming increasingly more expensive and harder to adapt to a race car.

There are Millions and Millions of small fairly high performance engines in salvage yards all over the USA. My bet is you probably have many right now at your disposal. They are competitive in a stock form with one another and I am betting they are competitive with Mini Sprints as well. After 20 years of busting my knuckles and all of that hard work involved with changing gears to meet track conditions that quick change sure looks good to me.

Wayne and I had this discussion several years ago and was one of the reasons for the shaft drive option in the old MMSA rules. Bill also saw the future and was willing to put forth an effort to meet the challenge. Wayne finally agreed that we were Midgets and has become one of the largest and most vocal supporters of the change. Race groups up in Illinois have also started to re thing their definition of Midget. We now have all of these cars setting around, many with no place to race. They can't come up with enough cars to make a full field.

Why not work together for the sake of all of these "Sub Prime Midgets" and make better racing for all.

You purist that can only pallet $20,000.00 Midget Motors will just have to drive a bit further to watch a Midget race. We don't want to deceive them.

We love racing and this is the level we choose to race at, if we get more funds or more desire we can always move up, in the same token the door is open to those racers that decide to step back a step or two to race with us.

If you don't make Du Quoin this winter put Montpelier on your race track to visit list. They are a perfect example of melting all of these Midget race cars together into one pretty exciting Midget Race program.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by riskybrisky5 A little history on Indiana Openwheel. Most probably do not know that Bill Gardner started this site way back when as USACfans.com I believe was the name. It was basically started from sim racing the old ratbag computer sprint car game. Bill had leagues and a lot of us guys got together weekly and competed as sim racers. I believe without sim racing this site may not even be here. I have been a sim racer since it started and I believe it is a great option for fans and racers alike to wheel there favorite type car around there favorite track. I have developed many friendships through sim racing and Bill Gardner was one of those friends!

Risky

Racers are racers period....Give them some one or something to race against and them silly people will race one another. It might be real race cars, it might be RC race cars it might be slot cars. It could even be Computer based. At one time Tony Stewart was a die hard RC racer they were as important to him as racing Midgets and Sprints. Now Chase tells us he is a die hard sim racer. All this goes to prove is a real racer is a racer.

I might start driving up and down the alleys and see if I can round up some old tri-cycles and start my own races in the pits at Du Quqoin. next weekend.

Has anyone ever had the opportunity to watch a bunch of Midget and Sprint Racers at a rental go kart track? The spectacle is awesome and probably just a little disconcerting for the track operator.

Honest Dad himself