[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 Move along bob nothing to see here. We have beat enough dead horses here. Once again not being malicious just stating a factual point. Posted via Mobile Device

You, not me, brought TQ's into this mix, I do have the right to my opinion, when you crossed the line. Bob!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by openwheel44 Just from 2-3 conversations today, I think most are on the same page about this motor issue. Stock.....bone stock. Fuel conversions only. Gas or Alky. Weight needs to be resolved. The biggest issue I see is how to tech all the components and not scare everyone off thinking they are going to have a hell of bill with the motor man after a "tech procedure" has been performed on their unit. Another issue....gas versus alky. Same arguments.........costs of alky conversions, safety of alky compared to gas and testing of both. I have a question.........I have been told that "some" electronics on these motors are set up that they can only run at 80% of throttle in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. The ECU needs to be reflashed so these motor can run at 100% throttle all the time no matter what gear you are in. I think most of us use either 2nd or 3th gear 95% of the time. Is this fact or fiction? If it's fact, is there going to be issues with BONE STOCK ECU's? And........how do you tech an ECU at the race track? Another question.......availability of stock rods for certain motors. One of our locals is saying he was having trouble with finding stock rods for his R-1 and on top of that.......aftermarket ones were cheaper. ????? Again.....fact or fiction? Is this guys blowing smoke up our a$$es??? Someone in the know please respond. STOCK can be a pain in the a$$ but it seems that is the only thing that is going to keep this class going in the right direction. We all just need to determine ways to keep the honest more honest. I am excited about the possibilities of having some sort of "meeting" to establish a common set of rules for this class. A set that all associations can agree with. Me.....I don't expect a bona fide National Organization at this time because no one wants to dedicate that much time to the situation at this point. I just think a "gentlemen's agreement" to a rules package that is ENFORCED would be sufficient to begin with. Baby steps............

First thing off the bat, there are very few people out there as honest as me, and even fewer more full of smoke except maybe old Bob.

1. FALSE The ecm is programed to be able to tell which gear the bike is in. They do this with a different resister for each gear selected and they measure the voltage return to the computer. There are a bunch of people out there that sell a device to make the computer think it is always in 5th gear ($50.00 for a resistor and a pig tale. What the bike builders did is to try to prevent non riders from having too much power in the lower gears and throwing the guy off the back. It is done by retarding the timing and slowing down the opening of the secondary throttle plate up to about 6500 rpm's. We never get that slow so it don't effect us. Nothing wrong with re flashed ecm, power comanders etc. Stock flashing is a bit lean in some places with headers even with legal gasoline, illegal gas likes it a little richer .

2. False You can find rods on EBAY all day long Dealers should have nuts bolts and inserts. Kawasaki sells racing rods but they are expensive. If the used rod is straight, not out of round and hasn't turned blue, it should be OK.

3. For all you Kawasaki lovers out there and there aren't too many, the 2011 and up motor is going to be a bear to get in a car and I suspect other bike makers will head in the same direction, so this is what we will be finding. They are building the motors up and not out, stacking the motor on top of the clutch and tranny. The oil pan is about 10 inches deep and has the oil filter as well as a lot of the plumbing for the oil system built right into the pan itself. The pickup is inside a big deep v shaped portion in the pan. Great for motorcycles but not worth a damn for a race car. To use the engine stock the driver will probably need a periscope to see over the top of the motor. And the pick up is in the wrong place unless we can figure out how to make the car lean over in the turns.

It is probably going to demand a dry sump and I bet the Bmw is the same way.

I can't think of a dumber bunch of people than stock BS Kart racers when we were racing Karts. They held old worn out Briggs motors to specs that Briggs did not hold themselves. A good tec on a BS motor could take over an hour or more after they started asking one another questions. You don't want to go there. If it looks stock mikes to a few thousands of an inch of stock it must be stock.

I keep saying it "motor inspection", is kinda of like trying to control "drugs and ***", ain't nobody going to get on top of it.

Stretching the truth is in the human DNA. All you do when trying to enforce these rules is to make it more expensive for the rest of us, and don't accomplish anything. Kinda of the new American way. Ask your self what do both sides of American Government agree on, ( drug enforcement) probably money there.

The secret is in the weight of car and driver, get that inline to where the heavy closer to Grown up American can compete right out of the box and you will have something . If a driver is too fast or wins too much let them carry a little more weight. The only people to say nay will be the skinny little guy who has been out running that big old boy day in and day out.

Honest Dad himself

[Bradleyracing86]

Phil, when you say conversions...
"Just from 2-3 conversations today, I think most are on the same page about this motor issue. Stock.....bone stock. Fuel conversions only. Gas or Alky. Weight"

Your guys, may agree with you but many don't agree with the mechanical injection restrictions. Our rules allow tqs, granted they don't race with us much but they are welcome too, that restriction here would limit those guys.
If we work towards allowing echo tech or focus running with us that limits that.
Where does conversion end, with just injectors... See that's the problem and mis understanding. Injectors are one thing, air boxes, air performance intakes, longer stacks.... These rosson, guhl and other systems are doing more than a conversion to enhance performance.
That's the thing if its a stock motor it can only take so much fuel and air. Most electronic injections have fuel pumps aft of the driver, there is always high pressure fuel in the cockpit, alky is bad but gas is even worse.
My fuel pump is on the engine and everything high pressure is forward of the fire wall.

The $3500 fallacy mark through out is out of ignorance. Nothing against him but he doesn't know. "He said the rule was made after he talked to his dyno guy. Dyno guy said it had 10% power over stock. "
Ok it's illegal, how much does Rosson or one of the high dollar conversions add in HP. If people say its just for safety I call BS.

Engler Injectors are 1600, that doesn't include airbox, fuel pump or plumbing. Does rossons include all those things in there price comparison?
When you blow up your 05 06- motor and all you can find is a 07-08 you can bolt it on, with minor changes. You don't have to buy all that stuff over like you do with electronic.
Did I mention I don't have 90psi of fuel with me in the cockpit.
And what's scary is guys have gas !

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[Bradleyracing86]

Don't worry about rev limiters or boxes, there rods will govern that. After they scatter there motor 2-3 times they will realize that 14,200 is no bueno.

Posted via Mobile Device

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 Phil, when you say conversions... "Just from 2-3 conversations today, I think most are on the same page about this motor issue. Stock.....bone stock. Fuel conversions only. Gas or Alky. Weight" Your guys, may agree with you but many don't agree with the mechanical injection restrictions. Our rules allow tqs, granted they don't race with us much but they are welcome too, that restriction here would limit those guys. If we work towards allowing echo tech or focus running with us that limits that. Where does conversion end, with just injectors... See that's the problem and mis understanding. Injectors are one thing, air boxes, air performance intakes, longer stacks.... These rosson, guhl and other systems are doing more than a conversion to enhance performance. That's the thing if its a stock motor it can only take so much fuel and air. Most electronic injections have fuel pumps aft of the driver, there is always high pressure fuel in the cockpit, alky is bad but gas is even worse. My fuel pump is on the engine and everything high pressure is forward of the fire wall. The $3500 fallacy mark through out is out of ignorance. Nothing against him but he doesn't know. "He said the rule was made after he talked to his dyno guy. Dyno guy said it had 10% power over stock. " Ok it's illegal, how much does Rosson or one of the high dollar conversions add in HP. If people say its just for safety I call BS. Engler Injectors are 1600, that doesn't include airbox, fuel pump or plumbing. Does rossons include all those things in there price comparison? When you blow up your 05 06- motor and all you can find is a 07-08 you can bolt it on, with minor changes. You don't have to buy all that stuff over like you do with electronic. Did I mention I don't have 90psi of fuel with me in the cockpit. And what's scary is guys have gas ! Posted via Mobile Device

We make our cut down harness so that the pump shuts down 3 seconds after loss if ign signal from ecm. Most guys cutting down harnesses for people don't do this, I really don't know why?

Safety inspection should include checking to see if fuel pump runs when engine is not running and key is on. If it doesn't cut off the racer needs to invest at least in a oil pres switch to do this for him. On gasoline this could be a flame thrower shooting out 30 or more feet from the car or a blast furnace for the driver inside the car.

Honest Dad himself

[Bradleyracing86]

That is smart dad, but what about when the car is running normal and you get a pin hole in the hp line in the car.. Aerated fuel, oil, heck even coffee creamer goes bang!

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[DAD]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 That is smart dad, but what about when the car is running normal and you get a pin hole in the hp line in the car.. Aerated fuel, oil, heck even coffee creamer goes bang! Posted via Mobile Device

How do you know that coffee creamer goes BANG!, u been going to them websites again.

When Indy (God Bless Them) and Formula I goes back to mechanical injection We will get one ***OK.

Better check that fuel system on that old jet it has the same problem, but I guess you just pull the fire system and limp on home. High pressure fuel is a problem any where and is dangerous but old Wolfgang had a mechanical injection if I remember correctly.

There you go just mandate on board fire systems on all cars fabricated into the wrap around seat.!!

HAVE WE CHANGED DIRECTIONS AGAIN?

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

You know it's kinda of funny, We have gotten almost 5500 hits on this thread and I think only one person other than my self has said ye or nay to Mr Spiker's request. Could that be from not wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face! Were I he I would probably take a non response as a nay.

We have managed to talk about everything under the sun except for his request.

Honest Dad himself

[cbaumeyer48]

Nay...thread completed......over and out.

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[Phylo82]

On the subject of mini sprints, we are selling our FOZ G2. If you know of anyone looking for a great car with an excellent COMPLETELY LEGAL motor have them contact me. Details in the mini sprint classified section.

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