[BrentTFunk]

I have never seen USAC get their t shirt trailer confiscated. I have never heard of them bouncing a check. I know that has happened with the WoO, although not with the current owners. I have never heard of USAC race where the promoter skipped out without paying as happened to POWRi in Kansas City. In my opinion they have the best program going. I would love to see pavement again, but right now pavement is hurting everywhere. Maybe someday there will be enough difference to bring it back. Check out the payout for the first night for the ASCS at East Bay. I think the salary that Kevin Miller makes is comparable to what they people have made in the past. I was told by a former president that ossucks, between him, his wife, and his son were making over a $1000 a night way back when working for them.

[cleatziff]

It blows my mind people are on here complaining about this. People always complain that USAC isn't what it used to be and they are running open wheel racing into the ground. However, as soon as they try something that might help fix the problem people start complaining. It may or may not work that is still to be determined. But doing nothing certainly isn't going to fix the problem. Good for USAC for at least trying. Lets save the complaining until after we find out if it works.

[Charles Nungester]

First you have to define the problem before you can comment on the problem. Adding other classes and orgs. etc, does nothing but strengthen USAC as a org. Not any particular class.

Im not badmouthing anyone or even USAC here, The proof will be in the car counts and fans in the seats. If he product is worth it, The fans will be there. If not. They won't. Barely three heats and a feature is no better than most regular shows even if the overall quality is higher.

[Max Revs]

USAC is not "taking over" or getting an ownership interest in either AVSS or the King of the Wing Series. The races in those series will now have USAC sanctioning, and all else remains the same.

There's more here from my recent interview with Davey Hamilton:

http://www.hoseheads.com/richard.html

[Charles Nungester]

Tracks don't pay USAC a sanction fee and drivers a USAC License?

[fish]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester First you have to define the problem before you can comment on the problem. Adding other classes and orgs. etc, does nothing but strengthen USAC as a org. Not any particular class. Im not badmouthing anyone or even USAC here, The proof will be in the car counts and fans in the seats. If he product is worth it, The fans will be there. If not. They won't. Barely three heats and a feature is no better than most regular shows even if the overall quality is higher.

Perhaps you should stick with posting the popcorn icons.

[ossuks]

Originally Posted by BrentTFunk I have never seen USAC get their t shirt trailer confiscated. I have never heard of them bouncing a check. I know that has happened with the WoO, although not with the current owners. I have never heard of USAC race where the promoter skipped out without paying as happened to POWRi in Kansas City. In my opinion they have the best program going. I would love to see pavement again, but right now pavement is hurting everywhere. Maybe someday there will be enough difference to bring it back. Check out the payout for the first night for the ASCS at East Bay. I think the salary that Kevin Miller makes is comparable to what they people have made in the past. I was told by a former president that ossucks, between him, his wife, and his son were making over a $1000 a night way back when working for them.

Again you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no clue....I really do not know why I waste my time replying to someone that I rarely see sober... BUT, I made $175 per night of which I paid for all my fuel, motel and food....40% of the time I lost money ....but you have never heard me complain because it was my passion...You tell who ever is giving you this information that Bill Carey said they were a liar!!! OR, someone is so in need of recognition that you make things up to make people think you know something.

[Revolution Racing]

Yeah they pay all their track workers at least a grand a night. They also slide each competitor an extra grand or two on the side. Also know for a fact that they share sponsorship income with their business partners thats how I made most of my fortune on the Focus program

[Stevensville Mike]

Let me see if I am following all of this as it is presented. Charles, you might need another bag of popcorn.

Before I start, I want all involved to know that I respect your opinions. I may disagree with them, but I respect them. Some are a little out there, but then again, some may feel mine are, too.

This thread started with a post about Davey Hamilton being hired by USAC to “improve” the pavement sprints associated with said sanctioning body. It splintered right there.

One splinter was hailing USAC for doing this and that trying to refloat a sunk ship – by doing nothing, nothing will ever get done.

Another splinter was Davey being the right man for the job – yes he has the experience but he also has a vested interest in a series that USAC is (ahem) bringing into the fold.

The third was USAC’s re-approach towards this series – they were piloting the original ship when it sunk.

We all love our sprints. Non wing, wing, dirt, pavement. Some of us love the way it was, some love the way it is, some love the way they want it to be in the future. Others dislike the way it was (few, but some), dislike the way it is, and dislike the direction it is going. At the heart of all of these loves and dislikes is the way the sanctioning body is moving/progressing/operating.

To the right we have the fans that like the status quo and feel the sanctioning body pretty much does all proper. To the left we have the fans that feel the sanctioning body is not hitting on all cylinders and is far off the pace of other like organizations. In between we have the forum members that see it both ways.

Back to the original post:

Pretty much all agree Davey Hamilton knows his sprints. He has a series he runs. He is a former USAC guy. The far right hails this as he being a savior. This is the way to go – period. No questions asked. The near right wants to give him the latitude to run with the ball – see what happens, so to speak, and hope for the best. The near left questions why USAC is looking at winged sprints, no matter who they hire to run the show. The far left thinks USAC is paying money to a guy who stands for personal gain, to get his series into the limelight, and will not get anything of worth on their return in the long run and the bottom will fall out of this.

Vukie, Panama, KMS2683, 1121, Seadog, and Racer X go to the right.

Team 3521 then counters from the left with a previous post about the high salary paid to the USAC President.

1121 and Team 3521 are pavement sprint guys taking opposite views.

Myself, ossuks, PPM, D50, and PJWright swing left.

SP Motorsports then notes that he had the original post of the USAC salaries and says it was not posted to malign USAC on how they pay their staff. This is the post Team 3521 was referring to. Perhaps Team 3521 is taking things out of context, hammering USAC, or perhaps he is putting the aforementioned figures on the table that were there in the original post for all to look at and ponder. Once again, he is a pavement sprinter like 1121. Nonetheless, this is the first item of debate.

So far, all are taking a stance – left, right, middle, etc.

Then we get a request to delete the post for there is bashing going on. Bashing, in this case, is a differing opinion, a counterpoint, and the other side of the coin. This is where I stepped in.

Everyone on this forum has to realize what you say will be read, and said readers might disagree. It is human nature. It is not an attempted stab to the throat, it is just a reaction, opinion, and viewpoint.

Vukie, if you feel I was coming at you too hard with fists, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. It was nothing personal. It was just my gut reaction to not accepting a reaction. I saw your original post as more than Hamilton being hired. I read into the link very deeply and took things away from it that obviously you thought no one was going to, or should have done.

Then we all went back and forth and Charles, a long time member of this forum, got out the popcorn. Left and right. Right and left. USAC is great. USAC is inept. Hamilton is the savior, Hamilton has a hidden agenda. USAC wrecked this and that. USAC tried their best to save this and that. WoO is better. WoO has Kinser and is more of an event. ASCS brings a lot of cars - USAC doesn't. ASCS is in trouble. On and on.

But where I got lost was here:

A link was then provided by Vukie with a tax document with USAC involved. I need some help with that. I thought the document was provided to show support for USAC and their modus operandi, for Vukie has previously taken a stance to the right.

When I read it, I see (for the last season USAC ran):

Form 990 – Page 13 of PDF:

$4.3M revenue (intake)
$4.1M costs (money spent)
~ $235,000 profit
$200,000 unrealized gains / investments (more profit)
A take in that raised the bottom line of the sanctioning body from $2.2M to $2.6M

They are in the black. Good deal.

Then I look at the President’s W-2:

Schedule J – Page 22 of PDF:

$250,000 base salary
$93,000 incentives.

Incentives aside, he got half the profit of the series for that fiscal year.

Now, I could be reading this wrong due to my own shortcomings, and that is where I am open to anyone to set me straight. But if this is true, I thought this was a tad high for a salary. I would have thought he got about, oh….. $50,000 tops for what they raked in? Heck, I’d do it for that, and then go back to my day job when I am away from the USAC office. You get your sponsors in place, set up your schedule, consolidate your rules, make sure accounting is sat, and then let the series run.

I honestly could care less about Miller’s salary, but this is where Team 3521 (left) made his stance on him being overpaid and the money not trickling down to the owners.

By posting this tax PDF, Vukie (right) is either buying into that salary being on the up and up and at the right level or noting that even he feels USAC is paying a little too much to the brass. I got a little confused here on which way he was leaning/pointing.

So, my train jumped the track there and am trying to get everything aligned again in my head.

Oh…. now, Hamilton is on the payroll.

My beef is not the salaries, though. It is with USAC screwing things up over the years. If given a 50/50 chance of making a proper decision, I give them way less than 50% of going the right way. This winged thing is not going to cut it. Not only that, where will the Must See guys fit into this deal?

Max Revs notes another forum that discusses sprints, that USAC is not taking over AVSS or King of Wings and provides a link for an interview with Davey Hamilton. In that link/interview, here is some of the context:

“King of the Wing will be run the same just under the USAC banner,” Hamilton told me on Monday.

Well, what the hell does THAT mean? That would be like someone taking out a mortgage with Bank A. Then they get a letter from Bank B saying, “Your mortgage will be the same, just run under Bank B.”

They just sold the mortgage! THAT’S what it means. USAC will not be trying to get $$$ from this? What, they are just going to put up some USAC banners at the races and show that they support this series? Give me a break.

So here we are now. Left and right. Pro Davey and Davey making $$$ off of USAC. USAC being wise, USAC being blind. Paying staff for staying in the black, paying staff too much for said profits.

And as for other responses towards me from Jonr and Brent. Jon, you have your opinions and I have mine. It is what it is. Maybe I am out to lunch with respect to the Badger Midgets, but as for ASCS dying, I know they have issues centering around blocks, heads, specs, and saving engine dollars. That can easily be resolved. They just need someone to decide what to do. West of the Mississippi they rule. You would have to really try hard to destroy this series. The NSL won't do them any good. But on the other hand, ASCS can always cross the big river where the NSL isn’t. Oh, yeah…. Some advice from an old bloke: Don’t believe everything you read on that other forum that starts with an “H”. I have read some of the stuff people post on there. It reminds me of some arguments we used to get into back in 4th grade.

Brent, I have no idea what the ASCS payout was at East Bay. I couldn’t even find it. Please point me to it. All I know it was $5000, $5000, $10,000 to win T-F-S nights. And it must have been a good payout, for 67 cars showed up. You should have seen how many showed up at Knoxville last year for the 360 Nats. On a sidebar, I hope you found a DD back to your hotel when you were down in Ocala!

Love talking with you guys (and girls). I hold no grudges against anyone here. I appreciate the banter. I do not intend to disrespect anyone personally, I just might disagree with your viewpoint.

It is Saturday Night. Why can’t there be a race to go to tonight? I think that would pretty much make everything better for the left, right, and center just about now.

[racefan20]

An idea that I dont think I have seen on this thread is, do you think maybe USAC took on Davey's series to get Davey on their staff. He brings name recognition and credibility. Another point I'd like to make is to whoever brought up the car count comparison. True the wing show had twice as many cars as USAC but there are probably 6 or 7 times as many wing cars in the eastern US as non-wing, taking the percentages in to the equation shouldnt there have been over twice as many cars at the wing show than there were?