[Kellen Conover]

Well I would think that if the mini sprints impact the car count enough at the other races that they feel there will be a significant drop off that perhaps they could include say AMSA or Mmsa on the cosanction for those races. probably best for those interested to talk to usac individually so they know what they are working with.

[DAD]

My dad was in business for him self for many years before I decided to give it a try myself. After being in business for several years and doing pretty good I was thinking about maybe taking on a friend of mine as a partner in the business. I told my dad of my intentions.

My dad set me down and said, Son "In business the only time that you need a pardner is when you are loosing money."

I did not take on a partner.

Honest Dad himself

[Revolution Racing]

Originally Posted by jjones752 View Post
I'm not one who is typically anti-USAC but I have the feeling from the original text that once the Honda-powered field is amply stocked the offer to run with them is off the table. Maybe not this year or even next, but eventually I expect that the Powers-that-be at Honda desire the HPD Midget series to be just that.
Wayne, did Eric give you any other impression? If so I stand corrected.
This is 100% not intended to be criticism, merely observation; I wish HPD/USAC, AMSA and SOLMS every success.
In any case the Zonker is not AMSA and REALLY not SOLMS-legal, so I hope to see you all at Montpelier this year, the True Home of Midget Democracy.
Jim

The old concept of a spec type race car, where the competitors are tied to one particular manufactured race car or engine has been tried over and over again but they all eventually fail. The reason is because the sanctioning body in their desire to make a motor or chassis or racing parts more affordable to race by requiring the racer to purchase his parts from one supplier takes away a very important and fundamental reason for racing in the first place. Their failure is because they removed "Competition". When the racer is forced to buy from one supplier there is no need for that supplier to make his operation more efficient or design a better part where he might be able to sell to the racer cheaper. In the end the suppliers end up with the desire to make a larger and larger profit and the racers find that their inexpensive racing is just too expensive.

Honest Dad himself

This was a great exchange of perspectives on the topic. I don't comment much anymore, but I can't resist here. Jim, if history is any indicator, you are exactly right. When we started the focus program on the west coast, we needed cars to round out the field because we just had a few Focii to start. So we invited the west coast TQ guys to race with us. Once we had a full field of Focii we kicked the TQ's to the curb. Now, it was not my call whether or not to include the TQ's and not my call about dumping them either, but I think one could possibly make the argument that it was a mutually beneficial arrangement. The TQ guys got to go to some really good tracks and race in front of some larger crowds (which they totally deserve to do, IMO), and the ford bunch got to put on a better show while the deal was ramping up. Once the field was full of Fidgets, the TQ's were naturally invited to race elsewhere. Nothing really right or wrong about that and really nothing underhanded about it - just business.

Now Dad - you and I agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on, but your post motivated me to illustrate an 'op-ed' view of what you said. I completely agree that with midget racers, perhaps more than any other bunch, the desire to be individual and to do your own thing is very strong. And obviously the focus project went away from that trend. But to say that spec engine type racing inevitably fails is just not correct. In fact almost ALL of the really successful series running today are spec. From IndyCar to Legends and Karting, spec programs have been very successful - just not in Midget racing but I think its obvious we have not had good management. When we started the Ford program, we did so because we saw large numbers of potential Midget racers choosing other forms instead because they offered less complexity and less overhead. The Focus program allowed guys to run a midget without the big motor bill and at the time, that was something new. Now, lots of groups are doing it and although I wish the HPD series good luck, it is destined to be an indiana thing and maybe a little on the west coast but I doubt it.

One final note - in the case of the Focus program there were a few reasons why it failed but one of them certainly was NOT escalating motor costs. I built every engine that ever ran in that program, including all the ones that were later sold by Roush, and the price I charged for a package never got out of hand. Other things did for sure, things not in my control, but not engine costs. And, although I did make a living at it for a few years I promise you I didn't get rich.

Thanks to everyone who keeps the conversation going - I'm kinda burnt out on it all but still love the sport.

Keith Iaia

[LEADERS EDGE]

Keith......didn't you at one time toward the end of your involvement start putting out indications the focus motors were going by the wayside and that there was a new and more expensive motor that would eventually be implemented? Wasn't the original cost $75 or $7900 and it was near $10 or over $10 by the time you got out?

[DAD]

Keith

It's all about ******** and glad handing I'm sorry to say. Lets see you said Indy car was a success. These guys get their rides with pure money. I go back to the 50's at Indy. Back then they might have 60+ cars trying to get in the race and we are not talking about back up cars that would be 60+ individual teams. Now they they have a hard time coming up with 33 cars for the race. We had Offy's, Novi's, Fords, Chevys, Buick's Maserati's and Studebaker's and even at one time A Cummins Diesel, and a couple of turbine's. It was very successful back then thank God, they are living on their past. Now Legends those little cars are related to the 600 roadster and Bandilaros sold by old Humpey still I guess. Compare those legends with the DWARF CARS, There is no comparison. Those Dwarfs and Mod lites are everywhere. Now Go Kart they might have a spec motor the hot set up now is the $100.00 Harbor Freight Chinese Honda Knock off. Then the racer goes to one of a 1000 engine builders and drop another grand or so in this little jewel so they will be faster than their buddies.

Focus Motors they were never meant to be in a race car. The head is not well suited to produce good Volumetric efficiency numbers. Wayne down in Florida allows porting on them and they sure need it and it does help a little, but even in this state of race tune it doesn't have much for the your little gm motors. I think perhaps the little gm motor might respond to porting and valves but the port angles are still not to good to really produce a lot of power.

The 1000cc Midgets aka Mini Lighting Sprint have been invited to race with the spec cars. Ninty Nine percent of these cars also race a spec or stock type motor. The only difference is our motors were not designed to haul groceries. They were designed to go to the race track on Sunday afternoon and our manufactures have spent a lot of time and money getting these things to a very very high state of tune. Two Hundred+ Horsepower from 1000cc motors isn't to hard to produce . If your little gm motors could produce numbers like that you would have a four hundred and twenty five Horsepower+ racing motor.

My observation is we already have more races scheduled and many times at some very top notch race tracks. We have a lot of dates that would be open for the USAC racers, why do we need to worry about co sanctioning races with them, why not open up our class to these other racers and lets compete with one another. We tried it a Du Quoin and it seemed to work great. If I or many other racers were required to race spec I would not race.....period.... the fun in racing to me is the hunt for more performance. If you want to race spec find a good Rental Go Kart track. I love racing a Montpelier but I also see the demise of Sportsman Racers their if we aren't careful.

Honest Dad himself

[LEADERS EDGE]

So.....you love stretching the limits of performance and competition, but you will only race cycle powered cars and you are worried of the demise of sportsman racing?

[DAD]

Leader

For $3000.00 I will be glad to sell you my bare motor right off the car>>you have to help pull it out. To pay somebody $10,000.00 for a super stock guaranteed perfectly identical to another one, no thank you. The cycle motors don't require any modifications. I would predict that Drive shafts are in our future however >>>>>I wouldn't be surprised to see forced induction also.

Indy was at it's prime before rules took over. The USA was at it's best before regulations started popping up all over the place and killing small business (death by paper work). When kids learned to work with their hands in school and from their parents they did not have to depend on a very few experts to perform their work for them. To me that is racing. My idea's against your ideas.

Today we also have a safer option>>> just sit in your chair punch in some parameters and race from home. Racing is expensive because so many racers never really learned how to work on or build a race car. That is one reason I have so much respect for old Bob on IOW. Bob is a guy that got up and did what was required for him to go racing, people like that do not respond well to spec racing. Spec racing is designed for people with little or no mechanical skills>>>>>>>>and even less desire to learn. "OUCH" Just my own humble opinion

Honest Dad himself

[LEADERS EDGE]

Everyone who purchased a Kurtis with Offy was an innovator of the sport? This sport has changed but not near as much as people of a certain age would like to believe.

[DAD]

Yeh

I kind of liked the V8 60 myself, I think Isky used the little Ford. And those Evenrudes sure made the race track smell nice, then you had the guys with the Harley Davidson's. Probably for every car Kurtis built their were 10 copy's made, some of them were very good race cars. They didn't depend on the 110 or the Kurtis chassis for the entire show. The DIY guys liked to say I built an Offy Killer and a few of them actually did.

Seems like we always want to give the engine all the credit. Doesn't the driver, chassis or set Racing Savvy or Luck up have anything to do with having a wining race car. Loosen up the rules inject a little common sense to give the little guy a chance to compete, it might surprise you, I don't think there is anything wrong with a person racing with ingenuity instead of money. The guys complaining about cheater motors can't even read a darned mike and have no idea what people do to a motor to make it better adapted for race conditions and not always more powerful.

Doesn't Honda sponsor the USAC National Midgets also, They don't seem to have a lot of engines in that class either.

Honest Dad himself

[LEADERS EDGE]

Do you not see how you double talk over yourself? You say on one hand you want the sport to be innovative and you want the little guy to have a chance and then on the other hand you champion cars that are powered by engines produced by corporations.

You say you want the rules changed to allow innovation but you would like to see the current people who support the series.....restricted.

You do realize that the Fontana Engine, the Esslinger and the Gaerte were all created by individuals and the Toyota engines are developed and maintained by old school racers? The parts used in and on these engines are designed and produced by American small business owners. I know you are friends with the Potters so I am also sure you know how much $ was spent in the early research and destroy years of the engine being developed.

All the while.....in no way do you or most people who constantly complain have any intention of supporting these organizations no matter what they do.

So many people say they think the sport needs more corporate support and then when it has the support of a Honda or the alike....the same people $"it all over it.