I agree to a point, However we are not seeing nearly the 410 startup teams or teams stick around as long as we used to .

In the back of my mind the 305winged cars engines put out as much power as the 604s Wisconsin class. Some fo the best Sprint racing I ever seen was when the motors put out about 600-750hp, Now there's crate motors that can do that and last.

A 604 GM crate is a 400 hp engine. 305 Racesavers are 430-500 hp, depending on the quality of the engine and whose dyno was used to generate the numbers.

Personally I don't think we need yet another "budget" sprint class in Indiana. There's already the 305s for those of us who like wings (heresy on here, but we do exist), and the Steel Block series for non-wing cars. The 305s have the benefit of being eligible for IMCA national points and being able to travel if they choose. A 305 or a Wisconsin Wingless 604 car can also be run competitively with the Steel Blocks if they want to. I have a 305 because, for our budget, it gives us the most options to run when we can, which has been FAR too little the last couple years.

Problem would be in my opinion trying to get car counts. In the more central/northern Indiana region around Gas City/Montpelier you'd be fighting the USAC D2 series. I don't see a lot of 410 guys going to to buy a 604 crate engine and I don't see D2 guys selling out of their D2's to just go to another budget friendly class. Only point in doing that would be to get to say you have a sprint car instead of a midget. You go farther south and you're trying to get car counts, when you have the Steel Block Series and the 305's.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Wisconsin WingLess Sprints. I just don't see how it'd work out around here.

I’ve seen them at Angell Park and the only thing I like about them is they don’t have wings. Otherwise, they suck. To me they’re a bunch guys that are too chicken **** to run Badger midgets. Indiana would not benefit by having this class. If you can’t afford a 410 you shouldn’t be racing sprint cars. And USAC needs to understand that midgets are supposed to be cheaper than sprint cars.

LOL throwback...(u know I fully respect you), but I think sprint cars and the GM engines are cheaper than the TOP midgets and bmara engines???...IF all the GM engines REALLY are all the same (people can buy the GM special bolts can't they???)...and before anyone gets on here or PMs me that I'm talking "bad" about bmara, I'm not. Only stating facts. A 604 retails under 10g; right? (thats what google tells me). We aren't allowed to talk about how much a bmara Honda cost (retail cost), but the bmara "Mazdas" were $15,000+ (I'd say more like 17,000) last I knew...& ya, I'm sure "Joe race car driver" (fictional name) ran 3rd that one time or maybe even won once with a stock out of the junkyard honest 2.4 (doubt it anytime recently, with stock injection anyways...), but I'm referring to the average...and I do like both series...but when just an injection system for a bmara engine cost (NEW price, not used; how many used ones are out there?), almost half of what this sprint car GM engine cost (retail, before any bolt-ons); I think that is something to look at (in regards to the part of this conversation you brought up...otherwise, again, as I do you throwback; I have just appreciated them both in recent years...neither are for me to participate in - I'm in the race to pay my house off - but for those that do compete in them; that is great)...

And lets do tires next. I'm not looking all that up, but how do those compare? Midget tires are in the $350 range, from what I was told. Are the ones the Wingless series use the same or less?

Would love to see the purse payoffs too...(I think bmara is better on this? I could be wrong).

Again, I do like both series and I hope they both continue to thrive. I think they can; but I think it is more of what a person likes and wants to spend their money on...

Guess that's why most of the former indiana LM drivers and half the mod drivers are running Cratemodels now. Because they're cheaper than both.

Just stop with the whinny b.s. ��������