The Great Name Debate

jjones752 · 1/30/15, 7:19 AM

I may be currently the hottest topic on IOW. It has been the subject of Rabbit Trails, Mineshafts and Off-Topic Diversions. It's time it had a home of its' own:

What do you call a Midget if it's not a Top-Tier, Major League Midget?

For the sake of the discussion, let's assume "Major League" to be POWRi or USAC. Also for the sake of this particular thread, can we agree to disagree on whether or not a chain or a Motorcycle-derived powerplant disqualifies a car from consideration as a Midget? My rationale here is simple; many groups (as outlined beautifully by Wayne on the DuQuoin thread) already consider them so. Also, many groups have already decided that cars like mine (over 1,000 CC) aren't Mini or Lightning Sprints either. For this thread, let's just consider the given dimensions and appearance that we all know and love as the Midget, makes it a Midget. And please, let's just consider those powerplants that are already in use today, no turbos, hybrids or flux capacitors.
I started a poll with some of the suggestions already in play, but forgot to set the number of options to mare than 4; anybody know how to fix that? "Just Midget" should be one of the choices at the very least; if I can I'll add it later and you can come back and vote. In the mean time put any other options in your response.
Have fun, be nice...

DAD · 1/30/15, 8:53 AM

Jim

How did you find out about our flux capacitor program? That was supposed to be a "supper hyper crypto top secret" program! Heads are going to roll over this breach. I guess that is what happens when you hire layed off Pentagon Help?

I also feel that in our quest for Political Correctness that should be "Sportsperson Midgets". NO NO NO Got to scratch Midget also, This PC CRAP sure sucks eggs!!!!

Setting up these polls is a tough job, best not attempted by amateurs. We do have some young bright kids reading IOW that would have no problem whatsoever performing such a menial task on a computer. The last time I tried the cut off date wasn't set and the darned thing is still active somewhere.

All help appreciated.

Honest Dad himself

DAD · 1/30/15, 11:15 AM

Help

We need someone to step up and start another poll with polling experience. I am not too good at it and appears Jim is not also.

I did come up with another name "AAA Midgets" (a name once Synonymous with racing). Triple A has been out of the racing business for what I guess is 60+ years now. Since Google map has kind off taken over their trip planning service and their major roll is the Towing business and Insurance, maybe we could entice them back into the racing game on a limited basis as our Sponsor.

Honest Dad himself

El1teBr33ze · 1/30/15, 1:26 PM

I'm not bashing anyone here but I'm personally tired of this name debate thing. This is very simple. And keep in mind I use to drive a chain driven car.

A chain driven car is a mini sprint or lightning sprint. Lightning sprint was given to not be confused with micro sprints because they are also referred to as mini sprints by many people. Wing or no wing, it's a lightning sprint or a mini sprint.

A shaft drive car is a midget. Plain and simple.

Have a Spike with an R1 in it? Don't care. Lightning sprint. Want to drive a midget? Put a drive shaft in it. "So what if you're IMRA?" Well, then you're promoted as IMRA but everyone knows you run combined midgets and lightning sprints. They are not all midgets.

Do you see people calling 410 sprint cars in Indiana that don't have wings a different name? No. They're still sprint cars, just referred to in promotions as Non-Wing Sprint Cars (and sometimes doesn't even say non-wing!).

Rant over. I've read these posts so many times I'm going nuts.

jjones752 · 1/30/15, 1:42 PM

Josh
I politely requested we not have the chain-no chain discussion on this thread, but since you brought it up...
IMRA stands for Illinois Midget Racing Association. They don't market themselves as "A Midget group that allows Mini Sprints"; neither does BAM, or SSMS or any of the other myriad associations who have a more enlightened idea of what constitutes a Midget. So leave the chain out of it for now. Let's have a fun discussion about what we think a good name might be for something running slightly below the ante for an Elite-level race car. There are many ideas out there; AA, AAA, Sportsman, Hobby, D-II, Lite. Come up with something new. I was going to try to put up a post with more choices but I'm getting tired of the argument too. I was hoping to avoid one. If you don't like reading it, well, don't. There are plenty of other choices out there...

El1teBr33ze · 1/30/15, 1:46 PM

I do like reading it, and that's why I commented. It wasn't really a chain-driven argument, it was simply saying a midget is a midget.

buckshot3448 · 1/30/15, 1:50 PM

How many years in a row now are we going to try and change the names of midgets? Until we we make 15 million different groups with 10 million different rules that they just become obsolete. Call them midgets since that's what it is who cares what motor is in it. We already call the Powri Usac cars national midgets. People need to be more worried with how there going to get people to the tracks and getting the payouts to get the guys to come then what we are going to call them.

jjones752 · 1/30/15, 1:57 PM

My apologies; when you said "I'm personally tired of this name debate thing" and "I've read these posts so many times I'm going nuts", I clearly misunderstood. As I said in my first post, "Midget" should be one of the choices, but I neglected to set the number in the poll to more than 4 and there's no way to change it.
You have every right to the opinion that Midgets should just be called Midgets. In many ways I agree, but as you also said in your post, there are differences in Sprint Cars too, and sometimes the organizers do feel compelled to differentiate slightly; "Racesaver" is a perfect example. They choose a name that distinguishes their group, and further investigation reveals that what they are after is affordable, economy-class racing. To me, that name is pure genius because it delivers the message without words like "econo" or "sportsman" that seems to stigmatize some who choose to go that route, but for one reason or another don't want to seem "cheap" or less than a pure, all-out race car.

El1teBr33ze · 1/30/15, 2:04 PM

Racesaver Midgets! Sold!

Kidding lol

jjones752 · 1/30/15, 2:05 PM

No, actually that's not bad; I just wonder if French Grimes has it copyrighted...

View Poll Results: What do you call a budget-minded Midget?
D-II, Division 2 Midgets	28	31.11%
Sportsman Midgets	45	50.00%
AA Midgets	5	5.56%
Midget "Lites"	12	13.33%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

1/30/15, 8:53 AM	#2 Re: The Great Name Debate
DAD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,955	Jim How did you find out about our flux capacitor program? That was supposed to be a "supper hyper crypto top secret" program! Heads are going to roll over this breach. I guess that is what happens when you hire layed off Pentagon Help? I also feel that in our quest for Political Correctness that should be "Sportsperson Midgets". NO NO NO Got to scratch Midget also, This PC CRAP sure sucks eggs!!!! Setting up these polls is a tough job, best not attempted by amateurs. We do have some young bright kids reading IOW that would have no problem whatsoever performing such a menial task on a computer. The last time I tried the cut off date wasn't set and the darned thing is still active somewhere. All help appreciated. Honest Dad himself _________________________________________________ Last edited by DAD; 1/30/15 at 9:31 AM.

1/30/15, 11:15 AM	#3 Re: The Great Name Debate
DAD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,955	Help We need someone to step up and start another poll with polling experience. I am not too good at it and appears Jim is not also. I did come up with another name "AAA Midgets" (a name once Synonymous with racing). Triple A has been out of the racing business for what I guess is 60+ years now. Since Google map has kind off taken over their trip planning service and their major roll is the Towing business and Insurance, maybe we could entice them back into the racing game on a limited basis as our Sponsor. Honest Dad himself _________________________________________________ Last edited by DAD; 1/30/15 at 11:18 AM.

1/30/15, 1:42 PM	#5 Re: The Great Name Debate
jjones752 Senior Member Race Count This Year: 19 Race Count Last Year: 22 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,259	Josh I politely requested we not have the chain-no chain discussion on this thread, but since you brought it up... IMRA stands for Illinois Midget Racing Association. They don't market themselves as "A Midget group that allows Mini Sprints"; neither does BAM, or SSMS or any of the other myriad associations who have a more enlightened idea of what constitutes a Midget. So leave the chain out of it for now. Let's have a fun discussion about what we think a good name might be for something running slightly below the ante for an Elite-level race car. There are many ideas out there; AA, AAA, Sportsman, Hobby, D-II, Lite. Come up with something new. I was going to try to put up a post with more choices but I'm getting tired of the argument too. I was hoping to avoid one. If you don't like reading it, well, don't. There are plenty of other choices out there... __________________ Jim Jones Midwest Thunder Speed2 Midget #97

1/30/15, 1:57 PM	#8 Re: The Great Name Debate
jjones752 Senior Member Race Count This Year: 19 Race Count Last Year: 22 Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,259	My apologies; when you said "I'm personally tired of this name debate thing" and "I've read these posts so many times I'm going nuts", I clearly misunderstood. As I said in my first post, "Midget" should be one of the choices, but I neglected to set the number in the poll to more than 4 and there's no way to change it. You have every right to the opinion that Midgets should just be called Midgets. In many ways I agree, but as you also said in your post, there are differences in Sprint Cars too, and sometimes the organizers do feel compelled to differentiate slightly; "Racesaver" is a perfect example. They choose a name that distinguishes their group, and further investigation reveals that what they are after is affordable, economy-class racing. To me, that name is pure genius because it delivers the message without words like "econo" or "sportsman" that seems to stigmatize some who choose to go that route, but for one reason or another don't want to seem "cheap" or less than a pure, all-out race car. __________________ Jim Jones Midwest Thunder Speed2 Midget #97 _________________________________________________ Last edited by jjones752; 1/30/15 at 2:00 PM.