[jjones752]

They're kind of a handy size when you have limited space and your only pit crew is less then a hundred pounds soaking wet...

[Rpracing1]

Originally Posted by Backitin I thought the midget outlived its usefulness the first time I saw a v/8 engine combined with a sprintcar. I could never make sense of spending as much or more on a midget then you would on a full size race car.

Obviously you have never attended the Hut Hundred, Jason Leffler Memorial, or upcoming Shamrock Classic race.

We love Midgets!

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by jjones752 For those of you who haven't been paying attention, there were a couple of fairly high-profile events a little over a week ago, one in Georgia and one in Illinois, one 5000 to win and one a first-of-its' kind indoors with a USAC sanction running the rules packages that you're bashing, and both with very respectable car counts. May not be everyone's cup of tea but it's actually gaining a bit of a foothold. And in the Midwest there really isn't a debate anymore about whether or not chain-drive cars belong, they are consistently competitive with their automotive counterparts. No need to get nasty, either; c'mon...

What the rules package being, "bashed"?
Nobody said chain drives can't be competitive, that I recollect, just that they belong in a mini-sprint, not an automotive midget. IMHO.

[gearguy]

Who is this "they" that doesn't make 2.4 liter motors anymore? Honda is building the by the thousdands in the good old USA. So are Jeep, Chrysler, Hyundai, Kia, Mitsubishi, and Toyota. Ford and Mazda have 2.3s -6 cubic inches smaller. The GM Ecotech will be around for years; someone posted a Sumitt Racing ad for Ecotech crate motors recently.
What will change is the internal workings of these motors. Direct injection is standard on new cars & the rule writers will eventually have to deal with it. We have leak troubles at 40 psi fuel pressure so it will be a learning curve for sure.
I have left the midget owner ranks because I am tired of the rules BS. No one tried to "level the playing field" when the V8-60 finally was replaced with compact OHV motors in the early 1960s. No club insisted you run a Chevy II; they let the racers figure out what worked and what didn't work.
We put 5 years into getting our Hondas sorted out only to be banned/restricted because other racers' self esteen was hurt. Racing is not Bible Camp kiddos. You work on your stuff and if it isn't fast enough you work harder.

[DAD]

TG

A 2.0 L (1998 cc) turbocharged direct injection version of the gen III Ecotec was available in the 2013 Cadillac ATS and Chevrolet Malibu.This engine is also available in Cadillac XTS in Chinese market. Bore and stroke are both 86.0 millimetres (3.39 in), compression is 9.5:1. The engine uses twin-scroll turbocharger with electronically controlled wastegate/bypass valve, air-to-air intercooler, stainless steel dual-scroll (1–4, 2–3) exhaust manifold designed to withstand 980 °C (1,800 °F) turbine temperature, and rotacast aluminum alloy (A356T6) cylinder head with sodium-filled exhaust valves.[14] Maximum engine speed is listed at 7000 RPM.
Year(s) Model Power Torque Dyno Chart
2014–present Buick Regal 259 hp (193 kW) @ 5300 rpm 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 3000–4000 rpm
295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 2500–4000 rpm for GS link
GS link
2013–2014 Cadillac ATS 272 hp (203 kW) @ 5500 rpm 260 ft·lb (353 N·m) @ 1700–5500 rpm link
2015–present 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 3000–4600 rpm
2014–present Cadillac CTS 268 hp (200 kW) @ 5600 rpm 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 3000–4500 rpm link
2016–present Cadillac CT6 265 hp (198 kW) @ 5500 rpm 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 3000–4000 rpm
2016–present Chevrolet Camaro 275 hp (205 kW) @ 5600 rpm 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 3000–4500 rpm
2013 Chevrolet Malibu 259 hp (193 kW) @ 5300 rpm 260 ft·lb (353 N·m) @ 1700–5500 rpm
2014–2015 295 ft·lb (400 N·m) @ 5200 rpm link
2016–present 250 hp (186 kW) @ 5300 rpm 260 ft·lb (353 N·m) @ 2000–5000 rpm
2013–present Opel Insignia 250 PS (184 kW; 247 hp) @ 4500 rpm 400 N·m (295 ft·lb) @ 2000–4500 rpm


Would one of these $2000.00 2.0 liter GM motors be competitive in a D2 Midget?

[jjones752]

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights What the rules package being, "bashed"? Nobody said chain drives can't be competitive, that I recollect, just that they belong in a mini-sprint, not an automotive midget. IMHO.

D2 rules include both; saying chain drive doesn't belong isn't bashing? OK....
When Midget racing began in the '30's and up into the ' 50's(and no, I'm not old enough to remember), there were cars powered by JAP V-twins, water cooled Harleys (Drakes), Ford V-8 60, Offy & Samson DOHC 4's, Elto 2-stroke outboards and even Ferguson tractor engines; chain, shaft, anything went. No one is trying to pretend the D2/Speed2 format is the ultimate in open wheel racing but it sure is a lot of fun, and I don't have to buy an engine that cost more than my house to participate; granted, I'm not D2 "legal" because I committed to a platform prematurely, that was not voted in after I had been given reassurances that it would be, by someone who is no longer involved but the basic premise for choosing what I did still applies where I am allowed to run. Montpelier's rules may be too liberal for some, but they work for me and D2/Speed2 works for what it is too.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by jjones752 D2 rules include both; saying chain drive doesn't belong isn't bashing? OK.... When Midget racing began in the '30's and up into the ' 50's(and no, I'm not old enough to remember), there were cars powered by JAP V-twins, water cooled Harleys (Drakes), Ford V-8 60, Offy & Samson DOHC 4's, Elto 2-stroke outboards and even Ferguson tractor engines; chain, shaft, anything went. No one is trying to pretend the D2/Speed2 format is the ultimate in open wheel racing but it sure is a lot of fun, and I don't have to buy an engine that cost more than my house to participate; granted, I'm not D2 "legal" because I committed to a platform prematurely, that was not voted in after I had been given reassurances that it would be, by someone who is no longer involved but the basic premise for choosing what I did still applies where I am allowed to run. Montpelier's rules may be too liberal for some, but they work for me and D2/Speed2 works for what it is too.

I apologize for inadvertently bashing the MC/chain drive crowd. I have to say I've never seen another class so fraught with confusion and discontent as the midget ranks. Sure I'm aware that back in the day a whole myriad of engines were utilized, but if I'm not mistaken back then it was only midgets, no micro's, no mini's or whatever else is still yet smaller. My point is that MC/Chain drives found a home in those type cars as things evolved and midgets became more automotive and less cycle oriented. Enjoy your v-twin or pinto or cushman powered racer and be happy. My biggest complaint was with having to run an engine, "as is", from a salvage yard as a disposable power plant, no way. To me bashing involves hurling insults and saying things about them that arent true, not disagreeing. ok...

[Focus4]

My wife and I are the directors of the Northwest Focus Midget Series, we use stock Focus engines as developed for racing by SCREAM for Ford and used in USAC. It has been a great platform for us the durability is excellent and the price point is on mark for the working guy.

[jjones752]

Aces, the goal of the D2/Speed2 movement is affordable Midget racing, much as you're trying to advocate starting an affordable nonwing Sprint Car division in the Deep South. One difference is that there has always been diversity in engine choices, whereas in Sprint Car circles there has been a concerted effort to conform to the small-block V8 model since the demise of the 255 Offy. D2/Speed2 has never had pretenses of overtaking the National Midget mantel except in rare cases of fanaticism; as far as I know the intent was always to offer entry-level and hobbyists like myself a venue to enjoy the sport we love. It has also always made provision for Motorcycle power, but don't equate allowing that to racing with TQ's, Micros or Half Midgets (Cushman? Really?). In the IMRA & POWRi "true" D2 divisions Motorcycle power wins as often as Ecotec, and even at Montpelier they routinely finish in the top 5, even ahead of Esslinger or Gaerte engines (not me, but in the hands of capable talent...). D2-legal M/C powered cars are physically identical in every dimension as the automotive-powered cars, and many actually started life as Beast, Ellis or Stealth Midgets.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by jjones752 Aces, the goal of the D2/Speed2 movement is affordable Midget racing, much as you're trying to advocate starting an affordable nonwing Sprint Car division in the Deep South. One difference is that there has always been diversity in engine choices, whereas in Sprint Car circles there has been a concerted effort to conform to the small-block V8 model since the demise of the 255 Offy. D2/Speed2 has never had pretenses of overtaking the National Midget mantel except in rare cases of fanaticism; as far as I know the intent was always to offer entry-level and hobbyists like myself a venue to enjoy the sport we love. It has also always made provision for Motorcycle power, but don't equate allowing that to racing with TQ's, Micros or Half Midgets (Cushman? Really?). In the IMRA & POWRi "true" D2 divisions Motorcycle power wins as often as Ecotec, and even at Montpelier they routinely finish in the top 5, even ahead of Esslinger or Gaerte engines (not me, but in the hands of capable talent...). D2-legal M/C powered cars are physically identical in every dimension as the automotive-powered cars, and many actually started life as Beast, Ellis or Stealth Midgets.

I think D2 is cool, but i had no idea they only allow engines straight from the junk yard, or did I misunderstand that part? As far as allowing diverse powerplants, I'm all for that too, just don't like being told I have to throw it away when it needs a refresh. I'm still learning about open wheel racing and I have a long way to go and I must admit I find the midget side of things the most confusing. The problem I'm having most, aside from traditional sprints is the smaller, smaller, smaller. I know midgets have a long tradition going way back, but why have something like a mini-sprint running the same powerplant or are they different too? I personally would never use MC/Chain Drive in a midget, not because I don't see them as capable or noncompetitive, they are, but it just doesn't resonate with me that's all. To me an MC belongs on a kart or something w/no suspension. Thanks for helping me begin to understand the open wheel world a little bit more.