[DFX500]

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to run pavement. But if the series was strong and the Championship was worth pursing, meaning it led to bigger things and paid a large point fund, then more teams would run on pavement.

[Hamby812]

As a fan, which is where I believe the problem is, you could tell me there is a 100k to win pavement race that is going to have 70 cars and a 5k to win dirt race that is going to have 20 cars and I'm still going to the dirt track. Pavement racing is lackluster for the most part. Look across the board. NASCAR has cut the starting field size due to car counts. Indy car isn't what it used to be hardly any pavement series has a serious following. As far as certain pavement races having huge crowds, I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of them are dirt fans just attending for the experience(like the Indy 500). I actually had a friend who left the 500 early to get to haubstadt and watch a sprint car race. Even a great pavement race isn't as exciting as an average dirt race.

[LEADERS EDGE]

I have seen just as many great pavement races as I have dirt races. I have also seen just as many bad pavement races as I have seen bad dirt races. I think if you go to any race with a bias of it's better than this or not as good as that...then it will most likely turn out that way.

For years.... One of the absolute best training grounds for racing was the Speedrome. Night after night some of the hardest racing you've ever seen. Taught drivers to race close and patience. Nobody went to watch for whatever reason and now the only time you can see open wheel cars there is when the Kenyon Series runs there. I'm sure they still put on great races whenever they are there.

Get tire costs under control and you will see more pavement racing. As much as a supporter of the sport Hoosier is.... I have to believe a restricted tire pavement series does not benefit their bottom line and as a company it would be hard for them to put money toward that effort.

[Jonr]

Originally Posted by Hamby812 As a fan, which is where I believe the problem is, you could tell me there is a 100k to win pavement race that is going to have 70 cars and a 5k to win dirt race that is going to have 20 cars and I'm still going to the dirt track...........

I have been saying the same thing for many years. If you rank all of the different races that you want to see, for most fans, SC cars are very close to the bottom of the list. Especially, if you have to factor in any travel. If I am going to have spend a night in a hotel to watch a race, it definitely would not be a SC race. Thus, as many people want to blame USAC or want to play the remember when game, the truth is that for most people SC races are not as entertaining as the other forms of races. You can't raise the purse without attracting more people, and for the SC product it is going to be very hard to attract more people.

[flagboy55]

I assume SC stands for stock car

[ronmil]

Originally Posted by Hamby812 As a fan, which is where I believe the problem is, you could tell me there is a 100k to win pavement race that is going to have 70 cars and a 5k to win dirt race that is going to have 20 cars and I'm still going to the dirt track. Pavement racing is lackluster for the most part. Look across the board. NASCAR has cut the starting field size due to car counts. Indy car isn't what it used to be hardly any pavement series has a serious following. As far as certain pavement races having huge crowds, I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of them are dirt fans just attending for the experience(like the Indy 500). I actually had a friend who left the 500 early to get to haubstadt and watch a sprint car race. Even a great pavement race isn't as exciting as an average dirt race.

Your friend shouldn't have had to leave the Indy 500 early to make it to Haubstadt; we saw the winner take the checker, walked to the car, got out immediately; had time to have a good meal at Gray Brothers in Mooresville and still made it to Haubstadt in plently of time for the races.

[Honest-Sam]

Originally Posted by racer-x what's 2 sets of tires cost? I bet a 4th place finish wouldn't pay the tire bill alone.

$1,632.00 if you mount them yourself.

[trannyman]

Originally Posted by ronmil Your friend shouldn't have had to leave the Indy 500 early to make it to Haubstadt; we saw the winner take the checker, walked to the car, got out immediately; had time to have a good meal at Gray Brothers in Mooresville and still made it to Haubstadt in plently of time for the races.

Really?that's what you got out of that?

[Honest-Sam]

Originally Posted by Pavement Dave I thought USAC has done a decent job so far with the Silver Crown series on pavement in 2016. They had 18 and 17 cars at the two races at Lucas Oil. The problem here tonight was the track. Guys don't wanna run Salem and WInchester with SIlver Crown cars. I figured there would be a dozen cars but missed it by one. If they decide to try it again next year it will be the same but maybe a car or two less. Does anybody remember the outcome of the last visit there in 1988? They had 12 cars and cut the laps from 100 to 50. nothing has changed in 28 years.

Seems like car counts have always been lower at the banks. Across all divisions.

[Hubie]

Very interesting thread, thanks.

Here is my perspective. I am 54 years old and have been to many, many USAC open wheel events. (notice that word) From a "hey, this is cool lets go" way of thinking I love DuQuoin and Springfield. Why? The fair. The travel, it's an adventure. Make a weekend out of it. Take a Gal! See something (motorcycle museum, I made some friends in DuQuoin, Springfield town is steeped in history) and of course my local "Hoosier 100". Truth be told, the pole sitter wins darn near everytime. You have to really appreciate a guy charging into the top five. I don't enjoy the "Big Cars" as much on the smaller half miles. I used to LOVE the 4 Crown Nationals. I won't go back as the track is horrible dusty. I like Tony Stewart and everything, but call a spade a spade. Eldora's surface SUCKS.

Now to the Pavement. The cars are just magnificent IMO. Here again, the pole sitter more often than not wins the race. I get that. The car counts at IRP (sorry, it's IRP to me but LOR proper) have never recovered from the failed experiment when USAC decided to get in bed with NASCAR. Those "things" were HORRIBLE. That was a dumb idea. If killed the gate at LOR. I don't think NASCAR buying the NHRA did anybody any good either. I live in Indy and fully support LOR. Even the Taxi races but here again NASCAR took away their biggest payday by taking away the XFINITY race and giving it to IMS. This REALLY hurt LOR's bottom line and took one of the best stock car races in the country. (Thank God for ARCA eh?) The sanction fee's are sky high. They ran everybody off, Goodguys, Super Chevy, Mopar Nationals etc.

I have never traveled for paved Silver Crown events either at Memphis or Gateway (a very nice track where I saw several exciting CART events)

As for the cost? Never owned one. I do think the racers should be paid more. Especially the bottom. I think USAC needs to look inward and come up with a solution. The testing issue made me think of all the Pavement Midget guys who did pretty well in the pavement Silver Crown cars. I know it takes a huge amount of money. Wheels, tires, engines, rear ends, steering gear, safety equipment, etc. The comments have been made that there are a lot of pavement SC cars out there sitting around. They are antiques. Racing is ever evolving and at this level by golly if you can afford something better your going to either buy it or develop it.

Racing has reached it's saturation point. Next time your at the track look around. You won't see many 25 year olds in the stands. Younger people are not into cars that much anymore. Lets talk about car owners? Where is the next Junior Kurtz? Johnny Vance? Wilke's? Hoffmans? God bless the Clauson's and Wilson's of the world. (and all the other family operations that put cars on the track) Young people today could care less about cubic inches but more about doo dads in the electronic package (which has made it's way into these forms of racing, you seen these electronic tire bleeders?) The ways to spend money go on and on. Yet the payout to the competitors has stagnated.

We had some pretty hot shoes, guys with real talent. Ryan Newman, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, you know the list. There were others who were extremely good that never even made the transition to Stockcars (Jesus they farked openwheel over) but then again, they PAY FAT MONEY.

The simplest solution that I can come up with is merge the Champcar points with the Silver Crown points. We know that series is not going to run the Dirt Miles, but they would for Team Championship points. You don't think Chip Ganassi would field a relatively in expensive (in his world) dirt car to pick up a 100 points at Springfield? Think about it.

There is no way in hades that you can put a dirt car on a paved track and have a good show. Physics wont allow it.

Hubie

ps - My heart is broken at the loss of Bryan Clauson, A finer young man would be hard to find. This sport has taken many good guys, and those of us who still love it remember their names. God's Speed Wheelman.