[Chris Baue]

650cc just seems like an odd number to come up with considering no one manufactures them in a production bike. You have to go down from 750 or up from 600.

[jjones752]

Am I missing something? I don't see anything that says there's a new rule, just that 650's "will be tested". Granted, that's pretty vague and cryptic, but there's nothing that clearly states a 650 cc limit, or what type of engine configuration has to be 650.

[TQ29m]

"Pretty Vague" Jim? That's kind of an understatement, yeh, it leads you to think it won't happen right away, but I'm not sure I like the slant it makes me think it could be going! Just sayin! Bob

[jjones752]

Yeah, the Missus doesn't call me Capt. Obvious for no apparent reason, Bob...

[trannyman]

Ok,it says right at the beginning,"to be used in 2017",so NO,not something to be used right awayIt says 650 will be checked for possible weight changes.so,that would indicate that the 650 will be an option.Confusing part is what weight changes?Would think the weight of car and driver should be a set amount regardless what engine is being used.The 650 does seem interesting.If changes will have to be made(versus a stock engine)then that seems like a counter-productive move to try to come up with something more cost effective.If trying to find something competitive with the Honda,then voting end of may doesn't leave much time to see how they do on the track.I guess none of that matters if they're going to do away with the Honda.So whats the goal here?

[DAD]

The 1000cc motorcycle motor isn't any larger than the 600cc motor is externally so why not just go with 1000cc motors and spice things up a bit? Both motors are a lot smaller and lighter than the Honda 750. While 600 cc motors have large numbers of motors out there in the market place they also have 1000's of sidewinder racers that also want to buy these same motors. A 1000cc TQ would be a real Rocket Ship, and probably cheaper in the long run than a 600 motor with lots of mods done to it!!!

Honest Dad himself

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by DAD The 1000cc motorcycle motor isn't any larger than the 600cc motor is externally so why not just go with 1000cc motors and spice things up a bit? Both motors are a lot smaller and lighter than the Honda 750. While 600 cc motors have large numbers of motors out there in the market place they also have 1000's of sidewinder racers that also want to buy these same motors. A 1000cc TQ would be a real Rocket Ship, and probably cheaper in the long run than a 600 motor with lots of mods done to it!!! Honest Dad himself

DAD, I see no reason to further complicate the situation, there is nothing wrong with the rules we have now, basically a twin cam motor, at 700cc, and a single cam motor at 836cc, easy, simple, no voodoo, black and white, simple, has been for years, when the Crosley became obsolete, so to speak, the Honda became the engine of choice, and still is. Why penalize everyone, for the actions of a few, it wouldn't make any difference if it were marbles, someone would find a way to make their marbles better, that's just the way it is, right now we have a "BOX" so to speak, to work out of, or in, if you want to get testical, and there are a lot of things that enter into this than just "newer" engines, none of the new engine have any torque, they are all too short in the stroke department, so you have to wind the wind out of them, to get anywhere, then you start over doing the bearings in the rear end, so you have to go to ceramic bearings, at least in the nose, to keep it happy, going to a 1000cc engine doesn't change this one bit, other than everyone is scrambling trying to make adapters and exh and etc, to be able to use it. I've been researching this since about 2003, and I've found one engine that will fill the bill, it has the longest stroke of any 600cc bike motor, is still in production, and there are plenty of them out there, that's where you need to look, it doesn't require any aftermarket rods, pistons, cams, valves, and a lot of the stuff currently in use on the Honda can be used on it. Just thought I'd drop that in for discussion! Bob

[DAD]

Bob

You are right, "NO TORQUE" the Honda has been a good motor for the last 40 years or so. And simplicity is always an option to look for. How many seasons do racers get out of an 836 before they need a freshen up. If you destroy one what does it cost to put it back? Your little Yamaha sounds like a good choice, but you have been met with a lot of push back to get it recognized as a viable option. You are right the new motors just have to spin too tight to get over the hump and make any torque. The 600cc motors like it around 14 to 15 thousand the 1000cc motors work at around 12000 RPM's. Seems to me that a guy that could make a reduction box say 2 to 1 would help things out a lot. The new motors if left stock could last 4 or 5 seasons before replacement and provide lots of power. The 1000cc motors would provide Horsepower like a TQ has never seen before. Midgets at 350 horsepower would be 262 for a TQ. The 1000cc motors are approaching that number right now STOCK. Wouldn't it be nice if all you had to do when you blew a motor was to go on Ebay and buy another and did not have to depend on an engine builder to build you another one.

Honest Dad himself

[TQ29m]

DAD, I don't see why that can't happen, they own race cars, they are mechanics too, aren't they, who would need an engine builder to swap some parts from one to another, buy a manual and learn something, you might have to use something other than your thumbs, and there is always the possibility something could be learned, man, would that hurt! I have talked to a lot of "builders" over the years, and if you ask the right questions, you'll soon see they can talk the talk, but not walk the walk, that's why a lot of guys aren't owners very long! Just sayin! Bob

[Knoke77]

I for one hope to never see a 1000cc in a TQ. Leave those for the Mini-Sprints.