[LeviJones20]

The full containment seat portion states that seats must be full containment may 1, 2018

USAC and WoO rule mirrors each other trying to meet the SFI 39.2 spec for ****2019****

In talks with seat manufacturers, all of our goal is to make the safest situation possible for all drivers in our midget and sprint cars. I feel we can work together in the coming months to make sure the best specs are mandated for 2019 and beyond.

Levi Jones

[jjones752]

Originally Posted by kcarm92 Tim, you make to much sense,lol most people that are making this mandatory has never been in a Sprint car or late model before , our sport doesn't care about concussions, if they did after a flip or violent crash they would do a concession protocol, just like any sport.If no ambulance ride to hospital nothing gets done to check it out,

I took a tumble the last race of the year at Montpelier. I was in a seat with the old-style Kirkey side supports on both sides, which deflect about the same as a net; I know this because I tested the right side with a pretty good shot and I could feel it flex. I could also feel a pretty intense pain above my right eye, which diminished as my helmet rebounded off of the head rest. I was conscious and lucid through the whole episode and when everything stopped I got out and they immediately loaded me into the IU Health bus and gave me a thorough inquisition and inspection, which I passed. Aside from a slight residual headache I felt fine. they told me (and my wife) to watch for any changes and come back if things got worse and they would transport me, but I felt OK the rest of the night. I didn't start exhibiting overt concussion symptoms until the next day but I feel that I was adequately assessed in the period immediately following my accident.
I don't think there's really any way to know how I would have fared either with nets or a full-containment "cell"; I did find it interesting that the SFI spec only covers the deflection of the shell structure without taking into account the padding, but maybe that's because there's already a spec in place for the padding and they're only concentrating on the shell with the understanding that there are other subsystems that must work in concert with that basic specification; the shell, the seat padding as well as the helmet itself, even the head and neck restraint system being used.
All that being said, it seems to me that racing organizations, manufacturers and testing foundations alike are doing the best they can to continually find ways to make our sport safer; while things may not be perfect they continue to improve. If nothing was done until the "ultimate solution" is found the insurance companies may be the ones who dictate whether our not the sport is even allowed to continue...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by kcarm92 Tim, you make to much sense,lol most people that are making this mandatory has never been in a Sprint car or late model before , our sport doesn't care about concussions, if they did after a flip or violent crash they would do a concession protocol, just like any sport.If no ambulance ride to hospital nothing gets done to check it out,

Kenny,

I was hoping to get folks to at least think about the concussion issue and the potential for these seats to contribute to the injury. I won't be surprised if little comes out of this, however, because most people believe that any brain damage must have occurred before someone gets into a sprint car.

Tim Simmons

[jjones752]

At the PRI show last month they put on a showing of the documentary "Yellow, Yellow, Yellow" about the Holmatro Safety Team; in it there was a segment on Scott Dixon, who had concussion symptoms after the race at Baltimore a few years ago even though he wasn't in an accident. They reviewed the in-car video and discovered that during a restart, while accelerating from very low speeds on the bumpy street surface, his head was ping-ponging rapidly between his head restraints. From that discovery they developed a 2-stage, progressive padding to mitigate the effect. It's all about continuous improvement.

[treecitytornado]

Guess I'll have to talk to, Brian. They are legal in the WoO.

[mike mcghee]

Fred we ran 2nd with a 11k motor...lol

[Kuhn74]

Continuous improvements in safety are always a good thing. Sometimes they protect us from ourselves and the fear of change.

That being said, if USAC, POWRi and everyone else really want to make an impact, they will step up and begin to take preventative measures from guys climbing back in race cars with concussions. They will truly get people evaluated after big spills.

The current model is broken. I hope they decide to put a little more effort in the long term effects these concussions are having on the drivers that are putting the show on.

Eventually, the lawyers going after the NFL, NCAA, NHL and the likes will realize the similarities in auto racing concussions. They will only be after the money when that happens, IMO.

You may say here, "you signed a waiver." To witch my only rebuttal is, a federal judge recently told Tony Stewart's lawyers those little waivers aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Aside from the lawyer grab, I honestly think they need a new protocol model. The effects 10, 15 or 20 years later are crazy. These organization's don't go and make you get cleared. They don't appear to care one way or the other. Especially long term. No paperwork for a Dr. to sign off on or anything else.

Just my opinions.

[Chris Baue]

Last smackdown aftera crash, I vaguely remember a safety worker shoving a clipboard in my face before I had my helmet off. Not sure what it was for but I’m sure I scribbled my rights away lol

[LRP36]

Originally Posted by Tim First of all, I'm a firm believer that it is best to have some sort of "mechanism" to keep the driver's head within the confines of the cockpit/roll cage at all times. I have concluded that the head nets provide satisfactory protection to achieve that goal. While not necessarily "against" the full containment seats I believe their current design could pose some hazard that they are actually attempting to prevent. As I read the SFI 39.2 specification, the head restraint is supposed to accept a certain load, imposed to simulate impact, with deformation to be limited to the specification. Essentially, what I glean from this is the seat head restraint/halo is supposed to be very stiff. My issue with this stems from research by Dr. Bennet Omalu that suggests that concussions are not only caused by outward impact but that the brain, which is suspended in a viscous liquid inside the skull, can "rattle around" inside the skull, breaking through the liquid and impacting the inside of the skull causing brain injury when the head is moving and suddenly stops, as if hitting the head rest during a violent episode. The padding on both the seat and inside the helmet cushion this to some degree but I'm not sold that the full containment seat prevents what I've described from happening and, quite possibly, might promote this type of brain injury. My opinion is that the head nets offer the same protection without as sudden a stop of the head thereby lessening the possibility of internal brain injury. There are other issues with the full containment seats that I question, such as cockpit egress in both an emergency (fire) and extrication after a wreck. I like the fact that the head nets can be easily removed to allow exit. I will say, though, that I am a fan of the shoulder supports and other aspects of the seats. It is just my opinion that I would like to see more research done on seat construction with regard to head restraint before I spend the required dollars to get a seat that complies with the specification. Tim Simmons

Someone who actually gets it...

[jdull99]

I actually thought the head and NECK restraints were even more to do with avoiding spinal injuries???