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7/13/13, 8:02 AM   #141
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
Quantrill
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 526
 

Andy, You told me Engler was $1700 on the phone? So if we are comparing apples to apples. I have $200 on my 4 injectors and $250 on my fuel rail. So my $450 to your $1600 or $1700 whichever it is? $100 isn't going to sway me either way.

Here is a total numbers on my injection system that I remember to the best of my ability.

injectors $200 I only have 4
Fuel rail $250
Air Box with V-stacks and Filter $450
Reflash ECR $300
Cut down wiring harness $150
Power commander $300
Fuel Pump $100

So complete with out fuel lines $1750

We (MALS) were not the first to ban Engler. ILSS and AMSA did before MALS was created.

So we based our rule on what they were doing and yes a dyno service that I used. And what you're quoted me as telling you must be out of ignorance, No offense but is not exactly right. Here are the facts. Dyno service I use only Does dyno work, Part time. He has a day job but has dyno cars for a long time. They are not trying to sell me anything other then dyno time. This guy builds his own motors and run in the 600 multi class. For those who don't know what that is it is open motors. Has ran 600 for 15 plus years. Used to run in the national POWERI micro class. Ran built Dyno tuned flat slide carbs. Said they could not tune a fuel injected to make the power flat slide carbs do. I think most guys in the class use flat slide carbs. The last time I used their service I saw he had a Engler on his car. I had two question about it. How much and how much more power? He said by the time he bought everything it was $3500 and 10% more power. I trust this guy not to lie to me or make things up. #1 he is not selling me anything #2 I am not in that class.

Did he add fuel lines and fittings in his equations? Maybe?? So lets pull $500 off that and say $3000 for Engler set up??

All the post you have posted I have yet to see you lay down a total cost to installing an Engler. What is it?

As for you high pressure fuel concern. I have a pressure switch sensing oil pressure. If it drops below 3.5 PSI it cuts out my fuel pump. This should be mandatory for all series IMO and would be a good thing to bring up at our meetings, if it happens.

Things like this will be brought up to be discussed at either our group meeting with MALS, MMSA, AMSA, MLS who have confirmed to meet or in individual series meeting.
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Last edited by Quantrill; 7/13/13 at 8:15 AM.
 
7/13/13, 8:17 AM   #142
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
Bill Gardner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKER RACING PRODUCTS View Post
Spiker racing products is looking to bring 3 cars to brownstown sat july 13th. As you all know my hyper car has a built engine with stock bore and stroke. It does however have high comp. Pistons. Would you let me run with your group this week since its non wing and the engine dosent really matter. I just dont want to drive 3 hours not to race. All the other cars are within your rules. Thanks rob winks
After 140 replies... Did you get an answer?
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7/13/13, 9:07 AM   #143
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
DAD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Gardner View Post
After 140 replies... Did you get an answer?
"No" and by no I see 3 less cars in the pits, a smaller purse, and less competition. All of these things make it harder to keep a class of race cars going and growing. I for one would like to see more cars, B mains are neat, that means you are growing. A 15 or 16 car field means you are having problems.

I think perhaps we don't need a national rule for all, but we do need a national code of hospitality on how we should treat visiting racers. There is very little difference in the motor in the Striker car is running and the motors running right now in MMSA, or for that mater even MAL. A good car and driver from any of these groups could beat the the cars and drivers from any of the other two at any given race.

These guys are "anal attentive" when it comes to motors and rules. These little "BOMBS" come from the factory with a volumetric efficiency of 95% or better, that means they have very little room for improvement. The best way to make them faster is introduce more oxygen through their fuel, and this is done all the time and no one is the wiser.

Paying some guy to go through your motor is more of a placebo than anything else. But is does raise the cost of racing.

Bill has put a clause in his rules about experimental engines. It however reads kind of like that new TQ rule where they charge $500.00 dollars for a fuel test, I bet there have been people standing in line to donate that money to the club. If there is a question about fuel it doesn't cost $500.00 to send it off to a lab. But charging $500.00 sure does cut down on the people wanting to protest. A deal like that should not require a protest it should be a matter of course. Having a car start on the tail and not race for money is a polite way of saying we would just as soon you don't show up.

Why don't the leaders of the 1000cc motorcycle powered ,midget framed racer car groups get on a conference call with one another and work out a deal on how they will accommodate traveling racers from different groups who just might want to race at a different track ever once in a while.

Honest Dad himself
 
2 members like this post: Cadpro18, sportster1
7/13/13, 9:46 AM   #144
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
DAD
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,955
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
Andy, You told me Engler was $1700 on the phone? So if we are comparing apples to apples. I have $200 on my 4 injectors and $250 on my fuel rail. So my $450 to your $1600 or $1700 whichever it is? $100 isn't going to sway me either way.

Here is a total numbers on my injection system that I remember to the best of my ability.

injectors $200 I only have 4
Fuel rail $250
Air Box with V-stacks and Filter $450
Reflash ECR $300
Cut down wiring harness $150
Power commander $300
Fuel Pump $100

So complete with out fuel lines $1750

We (MALS) were not the first to ban Engler. ILSS and AMSA did before MALS was created.

So we based our rule on what they were doing and yes a dyno service that I used. And what you're quoted me as telling you must be out of ignorance, No offense but is not exactly right. Here are the facts. Dyno service I use only Does dyno work, Part time. He has a day job but has dyno cars for a long time. They are not trying to sell me anything other then dyno time. This guy builds his own motors and run in the 600 multi class. For those who don't know what that is it is open motors. Has ran 600 for 15 plus years. Used to run in the national POWERI micro class. Ran built Dyno tuned flat slide carbs. Said they could not tune a fuel injected to make the power flat slide carbs do. I think most guys in the class use flat slide carbs. The last time I used their service I saw he had a Engler on his car. I had two question about it. How much and how much more power? He said by the time he bought everything it was $3500 and 10% more power. I trust this guy not to lie to me or make things up. #1 he is not selling me anything #2 I am not in that class.

Did he add fuel lines and fittings in his equations? Maybe?? So lets pull $500 off that and say $3000 for Engler set up??

All the post you have posted I have yet to see you lay down a total cost to installing an Engler. What is it?

As for you high pressure fuel concern. I have a pressure switch sensing oil pressure. If it drops below 3.5 PSI it cuts out my fuel pump. This should be mandatory for all series IMO and would be a good thing to bring up at our meetings, if it happens.

Things like this will be brought up to be discussed at either our group meeting with MALS, MMSA, AMSA, MLS who have confirmed to meet or in individual series meeting.
MARK

That guy is selling you a line of "glittering bull$hit". There ain't 10% left in a little 600cc motor. Either he sells Engler, Engler gave him a super deal, or If he spent that much money on a fuel injection system I would have to say it is super too.

"VE" is what makes horsepower, to increase "VE" you need "fuel" and "air" you can get more "fuel" in there easy the trick is getting more "air" in there.

THINK.

Honest Dad himself
 
7/13/13, 9:52 AM   #145
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
Phylo82
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,046
 

Dad, while I understand the point you are trying to make no 'regular' wants to go to the track and get beat by a visiting car that may be running something they are not allowed to run. That's why there is a rule book.

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1 member likes this post: DAD
7/13/13, 10:02 AM   #146
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
PatrickMead#13
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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What ever happened to the days where a team could show up for one event a tad outside the rules and be allowed to race that night for money only and no points. After that event, the car had to get within the rules or would be disqualified from there on out. I have a carbed 1127 oiler engine so I already know I'm out, but I feel if you go the powers that be and are straight with them, they would let you run for 1 event so I say, let him run the one show which would add 3 cars to the field and if he is just obviously running away from the field, park it. I just hope all the powers that be get together and work something out in the off season because I might stick some wings on my car a few times next year just to say I've tried it. Can't we just all get along?......
 
2 members like this post: DAD, jjones752
7/13/13, 10:28 AM   #147
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
DAD
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phylo82 View Post
Dad, while I understand the point you are trying to make no 'regular' wants to go to the track and get beat by a visiting car that may be running something they are not allowed to run. That's why there is a rule book.

Posted via Mobile Device


Phil

Many years ago after I had gotten too big for Quarter midgets, I helped out a kid named Preston Ford and his dad Les race the national QMA circuit.

This family from the west coast came out barnstorming the east coast their name was "Tripp". There dad Bob, oldest son Bobby and baby brother "Sleepy" were unknown name back here. They were so far advanced on us it was silly. Preston's dad Les befriended these people and they were kind enough to guide us in the right direction with tips ideas and contacts. They bough things like "BOSE" motors, slipper left rear clutches for Sleepy's B car, and cow catcher front bumpers, and the trick I like best.

They would arrive at the track a couple days ahead of the race. Dad would go out and "ROSSEN" up the turns and Sleepy and Bobby would go out and rossen up the tires. They would then sweep up the rossen take the tires off put them in the "bus" trailers had not been invented yet and wait for race day. They would go out hot lap with regular tires then come back in put the rossen tires on the cars and go out and set a couple of track record laps in both "A" and "B MOD".

The way you learn is by asking people and talking with people outside your little world. What is wrong with getting beaten ever so often. That little trip east turned Ernie Bose into a household name in the QM world and set Sleepy up in some pretty good midget rides.

Honest Dad himself
 
7/13/13, 11:24 AM   #148
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
Bradleyracing86
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,619
 

A pin hole in the hp line won't kill the engine. Quite a fire can break out in that time, does your fuel lines run up the left side, next to the exhaust?
Some other things you'll need on your electronic injection:

A high pressure regulator, I know they can be pricy.

Fuel pump won't last...

Dyno visit for the tuning?

As I mentioned before when can't find another motor from the next generation you do it all over again.

The guy with the mechanical injection, weather it's hilborn or Engler or what ever buys a bare motor. He already had a harness, box, and injectors...
You start all over...

In 5 years you'll have 3k plus.

They are closer than you think mark.

Old 1200, 1127, if they are stock wont run with a stock 1000. Let them run. They will eventually buy a 1000. Let them run whatever injection or oil pan they want.

Alky injection isn't about performance as much as it is about safety. Are you gonna ban expensive seats?

Btw sorry I misunderstood your wife joke. Mark domestic violence isn't a joking matter.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
7/13/13, 11:52 AM   #149
Re: Attn: Mmsa mini sprints
DAD
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 View Post
A pin hole in the hp line won't kill the engine. Quite a fire can break out in that time, does your fuel lines run up the left side, next to the exhaust?
Some other things you'll need on your electronic injection:

A high pressure regulator, I know they can be pricy.

Fuel pump won't last...

Dyno visit for the tuning?

As I mentioned before when can't find another motor from the next generation you do it all over again.

The guy with the mechanical injection, weather it's hilborn or Engler or what ever buys a bare motor. He already had a harness, box, and injectors...
You start all over...

In 5 years you'll have 3k plus.

They are closer than you think mark.

Old 1200, 1127, if they are stock wont run with a stock 1000. Let them run. They will eventually buy a 1000. Let them run whatever injection or oil pan they want.

Alky injection isn't about performance as much as it is about safety. Are you gonna ban expensive seats?

Btw sorry I misunderstood your wife joke. Mark domestic violence isn't a joking matter.

Posted via Mobile Device

Andy

Guess you never run with that Jason Soudrette kid and that "Hank Scott" Suzuki Bandit, that thing ate 1000 cc motors for breakfast.

Honest Dad himself
 
7/13/13, 12:07 PM   #150
cbaumeyer48
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 247
 

Three items:

1. Bill Gardner....I posted Nay back a few pages.

2. To all: a few pages back it was mentioned that a meeting is in the works for the off season.

3. Quintrill : your like a record with a big crack.....big crack.....big crack......big crack....zzztt .... In it. It looked as though Bradley had let it go, but you are like my sister in law.....you just can't let go of something......please let it lie, attend the meeting and everyone work out a set of rules. If Engler is not allowed....then it's not allowed.

Phrase to remember:
Like trying to pick fly $h!t out of pepper.

Posted via Mobile Device
 
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