[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by Kuhn74 I saw this thread a couple of days ago and started to comment and then I didn't. Justin Grant brings up and excellent point. My experience with seats from the beginning includes Kirkey double wrap seats without headrests (double head nets) all the way through full containment style seats. I don't have any physical evidence to give other than my symptoms after big accidents. I can tell you from my experience that with the Kirkey Style double wrap standard seat my body would be way more beat up after a crash without having the shoulder containment and head containment to keep you from flopping around in a violent crash, but the concussions were not as severe. With the full containment style seats I ran later in my career, my body didn't get beat up near as bad but I sustained more concussions with a full containment seat than I did without one. IMO, the close proximity of the head supports creates a "ping pong" effect with the head/brain. Like I said earlier, my personal symptoms are my only evidence, but with the FC seat, conscussions seemed to come easier from smaller hits. To back up Justin's point, when I was younger I had a conversation with Bob East about cars and seats giving way in big wrecks (my thinking was that they were less safe), but the energy that gets dissipated is very important. If the seat and car don't give a little, then the driver takes all of that energy. All of that said, I personally loved the Ultrashield products. Those guys are good to work with and a fair price. Old man Hunt in Lincoln, NE builds a nice custom seat, but they are not very forgiving on the ribs. I never sat in a Butlerbuilt. Kirkey has not done much with development like their competitors in recent years. LaJoie builds a nice seat, contours to lower back nice, I did not like the feel of no rib wraps though. If I had it to do all over again, I would spend the time and money on a custom molded insert. None of the seats provide good lower back support.

The things you mentioned about the, "ping-pong" effect, came out in the Stanford study I watched a Ted talk on. Concussions don't come about exactly as we might think they do and don't usually occur on the surface of the brain where it impacts the skull. What they've discovered so far is that in an impact, the skull/helmet rebounds and impacts the brain while its still traveling toward to skull. The brain distorts and twists inside the skull and a sheering action takes place near the center at the mid-line, tearing the membrane that separates the different portions. I know a few late model racers who purchased top of the line, custom fit FC seats and without having a crash, just racing on a rough surface with high banks, had concussion symptoms for several days after, just from being "ping-ponged" between the head rests. This happened on multiple occasions and to more than one driver. This also is one of the factors that caused my departure from late models, I couldn't get anyone to listen and they were mandating we strap ourselves into something I believed caused harm and increased risk of serious injury. Being an older racer I have no desire to diminish my mental faculties for later in life when I can no longer drive, like being able to feed myself and remembering where I live. The Marcus Neimila(sp?) wreck and his lingering issues are why I keep asking questions. I'm not looking for confrontation mind you, but awareness and a serious conversation, the sharing of info and experience. I've yet to have 1 manufacturer of FC seats discuss this issue. The late model sanctions knee-jerked and I fully expect to hear of more injuries forthcoming, but with open wheel there still seems to be the possibility of a discussion. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, keep it coming, this isn't a race, its about truth and caring about yourself and others.