[JBRACING]

Due to the interest we have received from both super modified and sprint car owners, we are looking at some combined shows for next year as a challenge series. We might even open this series up to the Top Speed type mods with equal tires and sprint wing.
Due to low car counts we feel this is a perfect time for such an endeavor
I have talked to tracks and owners with positive feed back.
We are looking at 50 lap features with tire rules. $2500 to win $500 to start.
Thanks
John
JB racing
517 645 7732

[sprintracer82]

Only if the old Little 500 roadsters are legal. A throw back to the old Tri Sac days.
Nick Landon

[racinjason40]

John, what would the tracks possibly be? Also what tires would they "sanction" if we are throwing this idea out there why not have it an open tire rule. I know that will probably start some controversy. What tires did the supers run? I know they have wider tires on some of the corners than the sprints. Would defiantly have to go over a rules package that fit everything. Might be the hardest thing to get everyone to agree on. But I think people would be up for the idea itself. I am defiantly interested in the idea though. I remember back when they had a few races when my dad ran at some tracks they did a combined show/ grudge match race with about 8-10 cars I think. This was with wings though. Are you wanting it to be non wing or wing?

[PIT CART]

Can we get a 2 day show at Angola??🏁🏁

[Wizard 05]

John..I believe somewhere in all of my old file I might still have the rules from the old Thunder Mod days..Those would fit into your conversion of the Top Speed type car easily..Like you I tried to get that group started again a year back but was met with a lot of opposition from people saying way to many classes..If you would like some help,,just PM me here or call the shop,,I'd be more than happy to make this thing go again.
KL

[stoney]

What`s the weight-break ;for a hotair balloon with a volkswagon motor

[oljonesy]

open comp, but NO top wings. that would be a throwback.

[revjimk]

Are you talking dirt or pavement?
Running against each other or separate races?
Sounds interesting, I'd go if it was on dirt, but I don't think Super Mods run dirt, do they?

[oljonesy]

pavement.looks like you stay home.

[1121]

I spent a few days thinking about this. I realize to some of you, pavement racing is about as popular as Hillary Clinton at a NRA convention, so all I ask is that you keep an open mind.

It seems that every time somebody starts a new racing series, the first thing they do is start excluding cars under the name of “saving the racers money.” They come up with an obscure engine rule, a tire rule or a weight rule that nobody can easily make. It sounds like, at least in part, this group is trying to avoid this.

If you follow pavement racing at all, you know the difference between the two major winged pavement sprint car series in the Midwest is the brand of tire. The Auto Value Super Sprints (AVSS) run Hoosier tires and the Must See Racing Series (MSR) run the American Racer Tire. They both pay about the same and both struggle for car counts. Although I primarily run with AVSS, I have run with MSR.

The Michigan Traditional Sprints (MTS) although known as a non-winged dirt series, over the last two years, dipped their toe in the non-winged pavement world. Although their payout was significantly less then AVSS and MSR, many times they had larger car counts. I ran every pavement race that MTS ran. And many times brought two cars. But, for this next year, they decided not to run any more pavement races in order to concentrate on the dirt racing portion of the series.

Recently, I was introduced to a gentleman who is trying to start a non-winged pavement series based out of Michigan. An endeavor I would normally be very excited about, but unfortunately, we did not see eye to eye.

I am normally largely in favor of tire rules. And ultimately, I don’t care what brand of tire I run. I receive no discounts from any tire company. And being a very budget minded racer, I am very aware of how much tires cost and how long they last. I also believe any tire rule should be the right rear only.

To me, MTS had the best tire rule. Many people on this board have wanted racers to be able to run a dirt car competitively on pavement. My answer to that was you don’t want to eliminate all the pavement cars out there. MTS, in my mind, came up with the perfect answer.

If you ran a pavement car with MTS, you had to run a Hoosier 55 (a hard Silver crown tire). If you ran a dirt car, you got to run the Hoosier 40 (a significantly softer tire and the same tire we run with AVSS). The other three corners were open. This allowed the dirt cars to narrow the gap between the pavement cars. And MTS had several dirt cars run with them every race. In fact, my partner in the race team, Jim Payne, finished fourth up in Onaway, Michigan with our Maxim. They only change we made besides torsion bars, was a right front brake. And by the way, I never ran a Hoosier 55 that I didn’t run multiple nights.

But back to my introduction to the gentleman starting the pavement series. I was told he had made a four corner American Racer rule. I explained to him that this just wouldn’t work for us and we probably would not be able to race with them. I was asked why I was so supportive of the Hoosier tires. I told him I wasn’t. Again, I really don’t care what brand I’m running. But we run primarily with AVSS which has 4 corner Hoosier rule. And even though I have partners in the race team, I do most of the maintenance myself. So for me to run with the new series, I would have to dismount approximately 10 Hoosier Tires (four on the car and six in the tire rack). And no, these are not all new. Most are used. We budget 1-1/2 tires a night. Then I would have to mount up 10 American Racer Tires. I work between 55-60 hours a week. To do all that extra work is just not in the cards. Then the next week, do it all over again.

When I told this to him, he suggested that I have the tire dealer at the track mount and dismount them for me. I asked him if they were going to do it for free. His reply was, “Well, I suppose they would charge you $5 each or something.” He seemed to miss the point that $5 each to mount the AR tires at the beginning of the night and then $5 to mount the Hoosiers back up added up to $100 per night. The concept of a “budget racer” seems to be lost here.

Also, look at the initial cost. Again, I’m a budget racer. For my first race of the year with AVSS, I will buy a new right rear and a new right front. The right front I will probably run at least three nights. The rest will be left over from this year. An approximate cost of $370.

For me to run the first race with American Racers, I will have to buy four new tires, since I have none. And that gives me no spares. So for me to have spares, I need to either search out used tires or buy new. But let’s give the guy a break and say I manage to find used. Approximate cost of $650-700 to run the first race, assuming I get the used tires for free. Again, the concept of a budget racer seems lost.

So, I know it seems like a long way to get there, but John (JBRACING), here’s my suggestion to you: I’ve been told by several people that should know, the AR tire is comparable in hardness to a Hoosier 50.

Let the guys run the AR tire. But also allow the Hoosier 55. It’s a little harder than the AR, but I (and several others I’ve talked to) would be willing to run it. But let any guy that shows up with a legitimate dirt car run the Hoosier 40. Leave the other three corners open.

Again, this is not about running any specific brand of tire. It’s about getting cars to the track. Something pavement racing desperately needs. By allowing the different brands and the different compounds, it doesn’t exclude anybody. If somebody wants to try pavement and isn’t sure if they will like it, they can go to a multitude of race shops and get used tires. They don’t have to worry about the brand.

John, you have the chance to do what AVSS and MSR can’t do. You have the chance to unite pavement racing and make it bigger than a tire.

Thank you

Tom Paterson
PDP Racing