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9/6/11, 3:25 PM   #11
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
racefan20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonMoore10 View Post
Aside from the points made so far and Team3521 has pretty much sumed it up, the purse structure needs to be completely overhauled. Not sure how many of you have actually seen the payout of the midget orgs but it's very, very heavy on the top and it goes south big time beyond 2nd place and actually second place money is nothing to brag about. If you want to see more cars at the track, then finishing cars 3rd on back need a little more piece of the pie. If you look at who has been winning you can see that about 3-4 teams have been gobbling up all the money. Most of the winning teams showed up at LaSalle and just about everyone else decided not.

We traveled 500 miles to the Southern Illinois Center last December for a $5000 to win race. About half the field of cars that showed up left with 0 (Z-E-R-O ) that didn't make the feature. That's nothing... no B feature money.... no tow money.... ZERO. So they promoted the race on the backs of the racers that entertained their crowd for free..... Hey, the toilet cleaners got more money than the some of the racers that night...... NICE
Don I'm not denying there is a problem but just for once I'd like to see YOU come up with some answers instead of just rehashing the same problems over and over and over....... So tell me Don how is the size of the pie gonna increase, from the promoter, I doubt it its not like they are getting rich. The fans, maybe a few of us would pay extra $ to see midgets but an equal number would get priced out of the equation. From the tire companies, well thats what has already happened in some cases but then they want to mandate what you run on so thats a wash too. Tell me where IS that $ gonna come from? For once give us some intelligent answers not just the same old complaints(and no I'm not "off topic")
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9/6/11, 3:40 PM   #12
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
DonMoore10
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1. Please read my first post in this thread. I've outlined how to cut the costs of midget engines in half and those engines will last up to three years without a rebuild. FYI, some teams are rebuilding engines after single digit performances.

2. Cut the cord with the tire manufacturers. Competition will lower tire costs along with developing a tire that will last more than one race.

3. Regarding purses: No need to raise ticket prices. Instead of $5000 to win it would be $2000 to win , for example, and the $3000 from the top would be distributed throughout the field. This is a very simple concept by cutting the top out and sprinkling it down the ladder. For a reasonable example, go to the Rumble Series web site and read the payout that Tony Barhorst has published for the Fort Wayne races. That payout is not the perfect example but is much better than any mainline midget payout that I know of in the country.
 
9/6/11, 5:26 PM   #13
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
Jonr
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Welcome back Don. It has been a while since you have been on this forum, and even though I promised not to play your games anymore, I cannot resist.

A couple points.
1. When USAC and Badger announced that they were going to introduce the chip rule, it was announced as a way to save money. For some reason POWRi has decided not to adopt this rule. Which is somewhat surprising because it would seem that the POWRi guys would want to control cost as much as anyone. While several of their teams deffinitely have big budgets, overall the budgets in the POWRi group is less than the USAC teams. Not having co-sanctioned events has hurt both groups this year, and may kill off a great midget race in the Gold Cup.

2. Tire deals help this sport. Do you really think there is enough demand for midget tires that the manufactuers are going to have a price war? By having a tire deal, the manufactuers know that they are going to sell a decent number of tires. Since they know that they are going to have a decent number of tires to sell, they know what price to set to make a profit and how much to "sponsor" the series. If we did not have a tire deal, in the long run two things would happen. The price of tires would go up because the tire companies know have to compete in the market place which means that they would need to adverstise more. Eventually, the tire companies would realize that the midget tire business does not have the profit margins of the other groups, and would leave the market. For the racer, it would mean a bigger tire bill because they will have to buy more tires. Brand X works better on dry slick tracks, Brand Y works better on tacky tracks, Brand Z works better on black clay.

3. A series of cars with $10,000 motors would work great. There are a ton of "outlaw" Modified drivers already spending 10k on a race motor. It would be great if we can get some of those drivers to trade a modified for a midget. However, we need to be realistic. Don't stop with just the motor. Have a realistic weigh rule. Ban exotic metals. Look at every piece of equipment on these cars. Is the cost/speed benefit worth it? Now that we have created this class, we need to understand the pecking order. This class is not the top midget class in the country. This title still belongs to USAC. This is going to be a level below USAC. We need to think ASCS versus WOO. The ASCS series is very popular and has good car counts through out the country. The larger national shows at the right venues routinely bring in 50+ cars. The ASCS never tried to be the WOO. They tried to the ASCS. ASCS cars routinely run with the WOO and routinely get beat. A couple of the bigger ASCS teams will have a spare 410 in the trailer that they pull out for the WOO shows. This would work in the midgets as well.

4. We need to some brave people to make this class grow. We need a fearless person who be the leader of this group. We need some brave promoters who will book the shows without knowing how many cars will be there. It would be great if we could get one brave track to agree to be the home track of this series with races every other weekend. We need a brave people to build some of these cars without knowing the purse structure, where they will race, or how often will would race. The guy who owns the "outlaw" modified is the exact guy we should be going after. However, in most markets he can race his car at a home track on Friday night, a choice of tracks on Saturday nights, and if he is lucky some special events on Sunday nights. It is going to be hard to convince him to sell his car that he can run 2-3 times a week for our class.

5. There are some success stories out there for us to learn from. ASCS was formed because of the WOO costs. 305's were formed because of the ASCS costs. Crate motor divisions were created from the ******** of the 305 series. IMCA modifieds started at one track in Iowa, and now they are everywhere.

All we need is someone with a vision that is brave enough to make it happen. We also need team owners that our brave enough to make it happen. These people need to understand that this is a new series. We are not going to make USAC conform to our class. This is a new class for all of the drivers that had a car parked in the shop that could not afford to race at a nationl level. The WOO only comes to my area once a year and I go to that show. The ASCS comes 8-10 times a year, and I go to all of their shows as well.
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Last edited by Jonr; 9/6/11 at 5:40 PM.
 
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9/6/11, 5:58 PM   #14
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
BrentTFunk
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Can anyone imagine if it was the other way, and the USAC guys were refusing to run? People would go nuts. I will still support ANY promoter that is willing to pay $1000 to start a midget race. With this kind of thinking it may be one of my last chances to see midgets. Also makes me wonder why Tri City Speedway didn't have any other midget shows this year? Could this be retaliation? Could it have nothing to do with the chip?
 
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9/6/11, 6:05 PM   #15
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
Charles Nungester
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9/6/11, 6:23 PM   #16
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
TQ29m
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JMHO, but if you aren't a car owner, or sponsor one, or drive one, you don't have a dog in this fight, as far as I'm concerned, I think Don has hit the nail on the head, I've been preaching it for years, and no one listens, they just go away, it's totally upside down, the guys that go home, with empty pockets, get no reward for their time and money, nothing, except knowing where their money went, and it sure as hell didn't follow them home, the players that some of you like to call "fillers", are the one's paying for your intertainment, not the 3-4 that are taking the money home in their pockets. Think how many more owners you could pick up, for $200.00! Bob
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9/6/11, 7:01 PM   #17
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
wolfpack58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miledirt View Post
I understand that Powri drivers are saying that they will NOT be attending the Gold Crown

This is not good
POWRI didn't support midget week and 3 of the races were as good as any I've seen this year.
 
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9/6/11, 7:07 PM   #18
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
Charles Nungester
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Wolfpack said what I feel. If we get the kind of racing we seen from a rev limiter that we had at Midget week.. Im all for it and don't care to go see them, since they don't care to show up for us.
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9/6/11, 7:15 PM   #19
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
jim goerge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ29m View Post
JMHO, but if you aren't a car owner, or sponsor one, or drive one, you don't have a dog in this fight, as far as I'm concerned, I think Don has hit the nail on the head, I've been preaching it for years, and no one listens, they just go away, it's totally upside down, the guys that go home, with empty pockets, get no reward for their time and money, nothing, except knowing where their money went, and it sure as hell didn't follow them home, the players that some of you like to call "fillers", are the one's paying for your intertainment, not the 3-4 that are taking the money home in their pockets. Think how many more owners you could pick up, for $200.00! Bob
*** Are you talking about we the fans don:t have a dog in this fight? If the fans don;t show up for a race who takes a bath the promoter and he can only take so many then he won:t book any more of those races and then everybody loses . I agree with you on yeah Don has some good points on things (wow never thought I;d say that) like the cheaper motors and spreading out the money less on top . Guess what I am trying to say is that everybody who likes midgets has a dog in this fight
 
9/6/11, 7:22 PM   #20
Re: More Midget Races Cancelled
Andrew S. Quinn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim goerge View Post
*** Are you talking about we the fans don:t have a dog in this fight? If the fans don;t show up for a race who takes a bath the promoter and he can only take so many then he won:t book any more of those races and then everybody loses . I agree with you on yeah Don has some good points on things (wow never thought I;d say that) like the cheaper motors and spreading out the money less on top . Guess what I am trying to say is that everybody who likes midgets has a dog in this fight
Agreed. I can think of 5 of us that drove over 250 miles each to watch the USAC midgets at Lasalle last weekend. And we could have all gone and watched sprintcars instead and saved a bunch in fuel costs.

And I've seen plenty of good non rev limiter midget races this year too. Unlike Chuck I travel plenty and dont sit home and constantly post on every topic.
 
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