You guys are spoiled, I'd take 16 of the the best nonruled midgets over a field of great, good and junk throw together just to have a full field. Have time trials for cash, points or whatever. Fast guy's start in the rear. Thats what makes for the most boring race's, you start the fastest guy up front, then in order, slower and slower and wonder why its a frieght train. Back at Flemington the fastest guys would start in the rear, and as a pack charge they're way thru. As much as I love Sprintcars today as a kid I didnt like em that much cause the modifieds were almost as light and small plus they ran Big Blocks with injectors. At the time I knew of some guys that were running 1500 or so horsepower and could use every bit of it at the square, which was know as modified country usa for a reason. Now we were just small block wanna be's BUT we won some of the biggest races of the season the 100 lap specials. We'd start out with so much fuel the rear end would be draggin but we didnt have to pit like the big blocks. There pretty much were no rules at all back then and guys were still racing with just tee shirts running probley close to a 100 gallons of fuel, lol. Anyhow the reason we didnt like the sprintcars was they had to push start the dang things. Everytime there was a red and there would be (flemingtons other knickname was flip city) You had to sit around too long to see a small block car that was basically the same as the modifieds with a 1000 less hp. Know I'm much more knowledgable now and know you guys have the best racing anywhere, them 410 sprints, the ultimate in race cars, sorry midget guys.

[Hamby812]

Everything you stated was fine backitin except where u said were spoiled. Yes i love to watch midgets and especially quality midgets but what u obviously dont realize is no one is gonna keep promoting these cars and tracks will stop bringing them in if there only gettin 16 cars, thats the point. And IMO id rather see so simple rules to even it up and bring the cost down than to just say run what ya brung. The main reason.....if the cars are fairly equal then guys will actually be driving to a victory not buying their way to victory......im done on this to many people that dont grasp the big picture....to bad for midget racing.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Revolution Racing]

Revolution Racing Engines builds a nice little engine that sells for under 11k, complete from the air filter to the muffler and from the pumps to the U-joint. This engine is not fully competitive with traditional Midget engines costing three times as much, but most people who have seen it run agree that its not that far off. We have finished many short track races with this engine in the top 5 with regional Midget clubs around the country - earlier this year, one of our cars ran wheel to wheel at Chico with the likes of Clauson, the Swanson boys, etc in a USAC event. But more important than all of this, is that after three years of racing this engine we have found it to be extremely durable. Three full years of competition, with no internal maintenance whatsoever, is what you can expect from this engine. Most people want to talk purchase price when discussing the cost of Midget racing but the cost of KEEPING AN ENGINE RUNNING is even more important. I feel we score well on both counts.

Cost and upkeep issues aside, as I said this package is admittedly not fully competitive against current engines. We are developing a 'Stage II' engine that we feel will close this gap for short track applications. Our initial tests of this package have been positive but we have a little more work to do. As you all know, nothing is for nothing in racing - the stage II engine will cost more and be less durable than the original package, but we are talking about perhaps 15k and two years with no internal maintenance - still IMO far better than the average today.

Kenny Brown with POWRi has welcomed this formula, as has the SOWS group down south. BCRA here on the coast features 3 RRE ECOtec Midgets at every show, and one of them is currently second in overall Championship points (this car also finished second in points last year). Many other Midget groups around the country are aware of our program, and are I believe prepared to accept the formula. Granted, it is different from what we are all used to. But I believe our package can solve some (many?) of the problems the sport currently faces regarding car counts.

I am not opposed to traditional engines. My best friend in racing runs a Gearte and I help him with it every chance I get. Our problem is that we just don't have ENOUGH new racers - for WHATEVER reason - who are willing to get into Midget racing with a traditional engine. The proof of this statement is in the car counts, we can't deny it. There are thousands of young drivers across the country right now running quarter midgets and micros, and Midget racing simply is not attracting enough of them to remain viable, with the overall program we currently offer. To those new guys who do come to the sport and choose an Esslinger or a Fontana I say 'God Bless You'. But we are not going to save this deal with those guys alone. We need to drag this port - kicking and screaming apparently - into the 21st century.

[Brolzy]

I've been out of the open wheel game for a while now, but I hate what's happened to midget racing. One of my first stops when I moved out here to Indiana was 16th Street Speedway, which I miss. With that said, since people are throwing all sorts of ideas out there, here's mine. Hopefully with all of the ideas out here, somebody with the passion, power and money can put something together that makes sense.

1. I don't think we can rely on the current sanctioning bodies to change things, it's going to take someone creating something new that will hopefully pass the old guard in time. Today, if you're not changing with what the market wants, you're being left behind quicker than ever.

2. We all agree that the cars need to be cheaper, and there's all sorts of ideas out there for that. Something like the 1 tire per position a night could work bring the tire bill down...but as for engines, the other huge expense, we need wholesale changes. Not just to bring the motor cost down, but to bring some interest from other manufacturers. There are so many 4-cylinders out there that can do the job with minimal modification. Sure, they might be a bit slower, but wouldn't that help the tire bill, too? Oh, and weight limits, exotic metal ban, etc., are interesting ideas that technical experts can argue about.

3. I mentioned other manufacturer interest. They won't come unless there's a reason...a large fan-base to market to. For that, and forgive me for using this as an example, but look at what Feld has done with supercross and monster trucks. You could build a decent and safe temporary dirt circuit (sorry, I live in sports car racing world now, LOL) inside of stadiums that have huge capacities compared to the tracks midgets currently race at. Then it takes some marketing dollars/skills and business to business deals to fill the place. The financial outlay would be much more for the promoter, but the rewards could be huge, too. This would help field size, too, because who wouldn't want to racing in front of that many people, especially if they aren't spending $30k on an engine? Oh, this could breed a tv package, too. I know, I dream big. With more money coming in, a promoter can maybe provide more support to their teams that are supporting them, and not have to make such a high percentage of money off of the back gate.

4. Looking at this through a marketing geek's eyes like I do, if you are running a show like above, I'm sorry traditionalists, push trucks either have to go, or each team has to provide one for their car. Since the latter sounds like a nightmare, you can guess where I stand. But, if you're not spending $30k on an engine, some of that money can go to a simple clutch and tranny, right?

Midget racing needs a complete game changer at this point...and like I said earlier, I don't think any of the current sanctioning bodies will do any of the above, or the other great ideas I've read. That's why we need someone or a group of someones to come in and save it. History has shown that the status quo won't.

Man, I haven't typed this much about short track racing in a while...that' felt good!

[Rpracing1]

Originally Posted by Brolzy That's why we need someone or a group of someones to come in and save it. History has shown that the status quo won't.

I believe the two guys for the job are right here................TQ29m and DonMoore10...................

[DonMoore10]

The Revolution racing type midget engine for 11K is exactly what the midget sport needs. I'm all for it. My question is: Does that come with a self starter/clutch? As much as I love the push trucks, we are living with ancient technology, guys, with the pushing. It needs to go to grow this sport. Like I said earlier, there is not a promoter in the country that would not welcome the midgets without the push trucks. It needs to go.

I vote no on the $15,000 version midget engine that Keith talked about. To me it's just the start of higher costs again... spending more money when not needed. I personally think the current midgets are too fast. I'm sure there are drivers that won't agree with that, but it's not how fast you are going but how much competitive racing can you generate for the fans. I did an informal survey a few years back on here and IOWheeler's overwelmingly stated that it wasn't the speed but the competition that gave them the racing high. Once again, we all need to put aside the way things have always been done and build the sport based on the fans and not those internally involved with the sport.

---------- Post added at 02:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Rpracing1 I believe the two guys for the job are right here................TQ29m and DonMoore10...................

Not gonna happen. I already have several hundred thousand dollars at stake here that I fear will be wiped away soon if something doesn't change. That's enough to keep me busy. I'm not only an owner but I'm a long time fan of the sport also.

[Revolution Racing]

Don,

The bell housing / starter / clutch components are all tooled up and I have six sets machined on the shelf, ready to go. We don't currently run them because right now we are competing against engines that don't carry that extra rotating weight and we are trying to reamin as competitive as possible. But to answer your question, yes we could provide the engines with starter and clutch for just about the same money. They already do come with a starter.

As for the 'stage II' engine, I agree it would be awesome if we could somehow avoid this slippery slope. Most of the guys who have seen the cars run agree that they put on a good show just as they are, and the only reason we are leaning on them is becuase under the current circumstances, we need to try and compete agianst engines that are a lot bigger, a lot more expensive, and require a lot more upkeep.

If we could develop a program that welcomed engines equivalent to our standard package, we would open the door to virtually every engine manufacturer on the planet that produces a twin cam, four valve, four cylinder automotive engine. That is a LOT of potential involvement. Honestly, I can't fully get my head around the reasons why the Midget racing community seems to have turned its back on this opportunity. These type of engines represent the cutting edge of current automotive technology, and embracing these designs would leap frog Midget racing from the back of the pack to the front in terms of technology and relavance to the marketplace.

Originally Posted by Hamby812 Everything you stated was fine backitin except where u said were spoiled. Yes i love to watch midgets and especially quality midgets but what u obviously dont realize is no one is gonna keep promoting these cars and tracks will stop bringing them in if there only gettin 16 cars, thats the point. And IMO id rather see so simple rules to even it up and bring the cost down than to just say run what ya brung. The main reason.....if the cars are fairly equal then guys will actually be driving to a victory not buying their way to victory......im done on this to many people that dont grasp the big picture....to bad for midget racing. Posted via Mobile Device

I didnt mean it as a put down, but you have no idea, although how bad it is now it can be. I'll trade you 1/2 of your racing for the crap we have around here. Really the only nonwing racing we have is Hamlin PA. A great little track, they run nonwing 600's which are nice but they're micro's on ten inch wheels. Besides that you have to sit threw 20 spinouts in the 270 winged micro's to see any 600 racing. I know I'm getting a bit off topic here but somehow poeple tend to think a 270 is a good starter car cause they dont have horsepower, when just the opposite is true a car is easyier to handle if you have ample horsepower and dont have to rely on spinning the guts out of a hand granade to keep up momentum, which is a great thing to learn but momentum comes with time. I understand totally about midgets, they cost alot of money.

[DonMoore10]

Thanks for the great info. I'm actually speechless here and wondering why all of this is not being implemented right now. Well, I should say I do know why. In the meantime we are all sitting by watching midget racing implode.

[DonMoore10]

Thanks for the great info. I'm actually speechless here and wondering why all of this is not being implemented right now. Well, I should say I do know why. In the meantime we are all sitting by watching midget racing implode.