[Backitin]

no way around "unsportsman" like conduct in any racing.
Take the literally most basic racing there is bmx.
Both my kids had to ride a couple bmx races before racing motorcycles. So here you are 5-7 yr old class, most have $ 200-300 bmx bikes, heavy and slow. Theres ALWAYS that guy that has his kids out on $ 3500.00 unobtainable alloy bike that weights 1/3 of what you got.
Nothin you can do but tell your kids to pedal harder.

[Crankin]

Originally Posted by MRAY3 First off Mr. Crankin, I don’t know that you and I have ever even met, so I don’t know how you know so much about me or my ties with anybody.

Craig Dori. All I have to do is read your stuff and your families stuff here, and on Facebook.

Originally Posted by MRAY3 Maybe you haven’t noticed, but I was the 11th person to post on this topic, not the first.

Didn't say you were the first, I said I understand the concern of the person that started this thread.

Originally Posted by MRAY3 And all I did is post some facts and ask a couple of questions. Is that not allowed on a public message board?

As did I.... With some real #'s as well. Not keeping the many folks that have asked, in the dark, as to what your's or Esslinger's engine are going to cost?
Now granted, I understand your's maybe still in development, that's fine, but Esslinger's is apparently ready as they're asking folks to call for pricing... Why can't that be made available to the public to counteract the claims of how much you think we're going to spend on stock engines???

Originally Posted by MRAY3 Is there really anything wrong with asking how tech is going to be performed? I personally find it more disturbing that nobody from the sanctioning body is willing to be open and up-front about their plans for enforcing the rules. If I was planning to put together a legal “stock” D-2 midget, I would first like to know that I would be racing against all other legal “stock” D-2 midgets. Is that thought process unreasonable?

Not at all, I completely agree. Feel free to ask some that know me how much I agree with this... In fact, that feeling completely changed what my Summer plans are.
The only other thought that I have on this, is maybe they (the sanctioning bodies) are keeping quiet on what and how they're going to tech, so that folks can't already know what to fudge on to get through tech?... Again, just a thought, I truly don't know what they have in mind, but I am sure it will be a work in progress that will need some patience from all involved.

Originally Posted by MRAY3 As far as calling someone out for building an engine and offering it for sale, why would you do that? The rules were written long before this engine was built. If you’re angry at them for wanting to sell their product, why aren’t you calling out any other D-2 engine builders who offer their products for sale?

I am not angry at them for doing anything. I am just trying to paint the full picture to counter all the negatives about stock D2 that come from you and your family, with a little of what has been going on from the "stock" side.
I have nothing to sell, I have nothing to gain except for the future midget racing as my opinion sees it should go. That opinion is obviously different from you, but I'am not on here saying things like "As far as giving this D-2 thing “a chance to work itself out,” I simply pointed out SOME of the fallacies of the ideas people are posting on..". I believe there are a lot of "fallacies" on what your selling, but that doesn't need to be constantly brought to the top of this message board.... Or as I put another way, wish would just stop.
How do you know our "fallacies" are not going to work? Know more than I know if your deal is going to work? As stated, the racers will decide as time goes by. But bashing one or the other is senseless, and does nothing but hurt the whole thing... You and Us!
Run your mousetrap, we'll run ours, it will all come out in the wash, not on social media.

Originally Posted by MRAY3 I know at least one of them lobbied very hard to get “any programmable ignition/fuel injection system” allowed.

IF, and I repeat IF, I know who you are speaking of, he runs an Electromotive Tec-S.... And that comes complete nowhere near $6,000.

[Racer12]

Run 410 non-wing sprint cars, problem solved!

Bob

[xoxide]

Originally Posted by MRAY3 I can take the heat. If I couldn’t, I would not have posted on this board. Mark Ray

That might be the funniest thing I've read on here yet considering you and your other half had to call Wayne and tell him to "control me" last time you were feeling the heat in your engine thread. LOL

[stoney]

Ha-ha !

[trannyman]

Originally Posted by MRAY3 First off Mr. Crankin, I don’t know that you and I have ever even met, so I don’t know how you know so much about me or my ties with anybody. Of course, I noticed that only one of us has bothered to attach his name to his post, so I don’t know to whom I am even responding. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but I was the 11th person to post on this topic, not the first. And all I did is post some facts and ask a couple of questions. Is that not allowed on a public message board? Is there really anything wrong with asking how tech is going to be performed? I personally find it more disturbing that nobody from the sanctioning body is willing to be open and up-front about their plans for enforcing the rules. If I was planning to put together a legal “stock” D-2 midget, I would first like to know that I would be racing against all other legal “stock” D-2 midgets. Is that thought process unreasonable? As far as calling someone out for building an engine and offering it for sale, why would you do that? The rules were written long before this engine was built. If you’re angry at them for wanting to sell their product, why aren’t you calling out any other D-2 engine builders who offer their products for sale? I know at least one of them lobbied very hard to get “any programmable ignition/fuel injection system” allowed. Mark Ray

I totally agree with your concern of being able to regulate the rules established.I'm from a different series that has the same issue.they didn't have a way or concern to check engines for being legal,and recently have allowed other engine types to come in.if you can't/won't regulate the engines you know,how will one know if the newer engines coming on are legal?if racers/owners don't feel like they are on a fair playing field,car counts will definitely suffer.

[MRAY3]

Originally Posted by xoxide That might be the funniest thing I've read on here yet considering you and your other half had to call Wayne and tell him to "control me" last time you were feeling the heat in your engine thread. LOL

That's very strange xoxide, since I have never spoken to Wayne about anything. You obviously have me confused with somebody else. Not to mention, I have certainly never needed help handling you in a message board discussion!
Nice try though.

[Brian @ Esslinger]

Wow, it always amazes me how the truth gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. It seems that each time a rumor is repeated, it gets modified just a little to suit the perception of the person passing on the rumor... Eventually it's way out of wack!

To set the record straight, the following are our approximate prices on BADGER and D2 engines:

Esslinger BADGER legal FORD engine as pictured in the first post of this thread = ~$18,000

Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with wet-sump = ~$12,000
Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with dry-sump = ~$15,000

After reading through this thread, it seems prices are in-line with other engine builders in this market. Along with our engine program offerings, we also offer our best knowledge and products to everyone who is interested in purchasing them. We don't play favorites, and every one of our National engine customers can attest to that. When we figure out something better, we offer it to EVERYONE! Believe it or not, the owners and management of our business cares more about the health of midget racing than most people could ever imagine.

If anyone has questions about our BADGER or "D2" engines or parts, I can be reached directly M-F 8:30-5:00 PST at (909) 539-0544 extension 3.

[jdull99]

Originally Posted by Brian @ Esslinger Wow, it always amazes me how the truth gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. It seems that each time a rumor is repeated, it gets modified just a little to suit the perception of the person passing on the rumor... Eventually it's way out of wack! To set the record straight, the following are our approximate prices on BADGER and D2 engines: Esslinger BADGER legal FORD engine as pictured in the first post of this thread = ~$18,000 Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with wet-sump = ~$12,000 Esslinger "D2" legal Ecotec or Honda engine with dry-sump = ~$15,000 After reading through this thread, it seems prices are in-line with other engine builders in this market. Along with our engine program offerings, we also offer our best knowledge and products to everyone who is interested in purchasing them. We don't play favorites, and every one of our National engine customers can attest to that. When we figure out something better, we offer it to EVERYONE! Believe it or not, the owners and management of our business cares more about the health of midget racing than most people could ever imagine. If anyone has questions about our BADGER or "D2" engines or parts, I can be reached directly M-F 8:30-5:00 PST at (909) 539-0544 extension 3.

Thank-you for posting these numbers. Can you post your HP-range that the $18,000 engine may ideally be around? Thank-you.

[MRAY3]

Craig Dori. All I have to do is read your stuff and your families stuff here, and on Facebook.

So you read my opinions and my family’s opinions on IOW and on Facebook, and you think you know all about me? You think you know about all of my racing related “associations?” Please enlighten me, Mr. Dori. What are my ties to any of the businesses and/or sanctioning bodies related to this discussion?

As did I.... With some real #'s as well. Not keeping the many folks that have asked, in the dark, as to what your's or Esslinger's engine are going to cost?

You’re STILL upset that I haven’t taken the time to determine the real cost to duplicate the engine that I built for my own personal use? My engine was built by me, for me. It was never intended to be sold. Why is that information so important to you? Why are you not demanding that everyone else post their cost figures on this message board?

Now granted, I understand your's maybe still in development, that's fine, but Esslinger's is apparently ready as they're asking folks to call for pricing... Why can't that be made available to the public to counteract the claims of how much you think we're going to spend on stock engines???

Why do you continue to connect me with a business that is more than 2000 miles away from me? Why do you call me out because you want a price on someone else’s engine? I did not have that information, and if I did, I would not think it was my place to post it.
Until you and the “many folks” started mocking the photo of my engine, and demanding that I post dollar figures, I don’t recall ever making any claims as to the cost of anyone’s D-2 series engine.

I am not angry at them for doing anything. I am just trying to paint the full picture to counter all the negatives about stock D2 that come from you and your family, with a little of what has been going on from the "stock" side.

Again, please enlighten me on this. I have just spent way too much time looking back through all of my posts, and all of my son’s posts on this message board, and I fail to find any evidence to support your claim. I have also looked at many posts and responses to posts on Facebook, and once again I fail to see how you can make this claim. Please feel free to use the search function and the quote function on this board and post your evidence here. I would like to see what it is that you consider so negative

Run your mousetrap, we'll run ours, it will all come out in the wash, not on social media.

I have nothing to sell, I have nothing to gain except for the future midget racing as my opinion sees it should go. That opinion is obviously different from you,

Ditto for me. If your opinion differs from mine, that’s fine. I thought that’s what the United States was all about. We all are supposed to be allowed to have and share our own opinions.
Once again, I am not selling any ideologies. I am not in charge of anyone’s “mousetrap.” I own a race car that I plan to race. There are options available for me as to where I race, and I would like to know how the organizers intend to enforce their rules. I simply would like to know how legitimate their program might be, before I determine whether or not to participate. I don’t believe any REASONABLE person would consider that thought process to be out of line.

Now, try to calm yourself a little and enjoy your day!

Mark Ray