[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE Why limit it to drivers? Shouldn't the crew and owners get in free too? I mean....without them there is no show as well.

Think you are missing the point....the driver is doing the entertaining....not the crew nor the owner...I have couple racers that come to the track right by themselves

t_inmyface Ya. Most local shows would cut pay if they lost all the drivers pit pass money. I would think they would be willing to pay the 25-30 bucks to have a higher purse because i am sure most places would cut more than the 25-30 if the drivers werent paying pit passes. Just look at it as an investment. Hahaha

that is why I said: "I know we at the SSMS write that in our contract with tracks."

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by hoosier race fan Many high schools here in Indiana are now "pay to play" for their athletes in all sports. Not saying I agree with the practice (I see it as a deterrent for some athletes that come from poor financial backgrounds or those that want to play multiple sports), but it is becoming a much more common requirement for participation in any form of athletics. I'm not criticizing the intention of your question or disagreeing with your opinion. Kudos to your group for allowing drivers to participate without paying the additional pit pass fees.

So they are charging the players a ticket to the game every time they play?
I do know most all schools here in Fl. make parents pay for the school insurance but do not charge a fee just to play....peewee and other non-school athletic programs do charge but it is up to coaches to get sponsors or buy the jerseys themselves..I did for 16 years as a Lake City rec. football coach

[DonMoore10]

I have been saying this for years. Drivers should not be paying a pit pass fee. I will say that I would support the crew paying a pit pass fee but actually the owner ( one owner allowed) shouldn't be paying the pit pass fee either.

[DAD]

Wayne

The question is are there more people in the pits paying pit passes or fans in the bleachers paying for front gate seats. Racing is entertainment but ask yourself who is paying for entertainment. In many instances the guys in the pits are the ones being entertained. I have always compared racing to BINGO. The people pay to be entertained by marking bingo cards, and when the pot goes up so does the cost of the cards.

We raced at a little track we called "Wonder Valley" I think they raced 4 classes, and they would have a big purse race for each class once a season. The only thing I noticed in particular was when a class would have a big race the Pit Pass would go up $10.00 for everybody. If you want to be payed like an entertainer than first you have to be entertaining and then you have to go out and get paying customers for them bleachers.

There is no way I would want to own a race track within a 50 mile radios of a large city. The most successful weekly race track always seem to be way out in the country where there is less competition for the entertainment dollar of the fans.

Honest Dad himself

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 I have been saying this for years. Drivers should not be paying a pit pass fee. I will say that I would support the crew paying a pit pass fee but actually the owner ( one owner allowed) shouldn't be paying the pit pass fee either.

Don in 1971 I went to the pit gate at North Valdosta Speedway and Mr. J.C. Cowart had posted on pit gate "DRIVERS ADMITTED FREE" and I never forgot that as to how much it met to me...1988-91 racing with the Old AWOL (USCS) today George Ichols had the same philosophy...He gave each car 2 passes and a motel room on fri. night...always a 2 day show...

I am not wealthy by no means and do not see that happening in the few years I have left on this great planet but I am very passionate about midget racing....I know I will catch hell for this statement specially from other promoters but I am not doing this to make $$$...I am doing it for the love of the sport...kinda what you and I talked about at Kokomo last Oct....I would be just as happy seeing midgets go round and round from the stands but no one else races them down here and I can't afford to take off up north on my little retirement...So I bought a midget and have been doing this for 6 years and man it has been tough. You have to find someone that loves it as much as I do to invest in one down here in the heart of stock car country. But I will continue on and work to help keep the cost in check. Although I feel I am sometimes.

[hoosier race fan]

Originally Posted by Wayne Davis So they are charging the players a ticket to the game every time they play? I do know most all schools here in Fl. make parents pay for the school insurance but do not charge a fee just to play....peewee and other non-school athletic programs do charge but it is up to coaches to get sponsors or buy the jerseys themselves..I did for 16 years as a Lake City rec. football coach

The fee to participate varies from one school to another. The most ridiculous one I have heard of was at a school where I interviewed for a job as a varsity basketball coach. In the interview they asked me how I would convince players to participate when the fee to play is $250 per player. The cost to attend a game (22 game season) was $5 for spectators, so the kids playing were actually charged over $10 per game to participate. My response probably cost me the job, but I had a hard time trying to rationalize that cost. The school I'm at now charges a $50 flat fee to all athletes plus another $60 per sport they play.

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by hoosier race fan the fee to participate varies from one school to another. The most ridiculous one i have heard of was at a school where i interviewed for a job as a varsity basketball coach. In the interview they asked me how i would convince players to participate when the fee to play is $250 per player. The cost to attend a game (22 game season) was $5 for spectators, so the kids playing were actually charged over $10 per game to participate. My response probably cost me the job, but i had a hard time trying to rationalize that cost. The school i'm at now charges a $50 flat fee to all athletes plus another $60 per sport they play.

that is crazzzzzzy!!!!!!!!!!

[jlingar]

actually i don't mind paying for a pit pass. having an ambulance on standby, some insurance,a safety crew to haul you out or put out the fire, and a track to race on. i am not there to entertain just to race a bunch of other guys crowd or not. i agree with the earlier post about not owning a track tough way to make a living

[LEADERS EDGE]

Don't get me wrong...I like the idea. My point is where does it end? Crews do the work on the cars and owners pay the bills. If you are comparing pro sports and putting this in the same class....then you can say that the team shouldn't have to pay. As far as entertainers go....often times the venue is rented by the entertainer and they pay whatever fees that go along with it.

Without ever promoting a race or owning a track....I have no idea what it takes to run a race and if paying 25 to 30 bucks means some sort of insurance is in place.... Then I can't see where that cost is prohibitive.

[kdobson]

Math is math. The track needs to make enough to pay the purse. This isn't speculative math. Race track promoters can pretty well predict their crowd, their pit gate and know their expenses like the back of their hand. We also can predict how many will stay home on a cloudy day... and how many more will show up with a nice forecast. I feel like I can predict our gates within 20 people on each side of the track - excluding weather. I think most promoters could do the same.

For the most part on a regular night of racing, we are in the food business. Specials can be different, but I'd bet 8 out of 10 local tracks are primarily in the food business if they are going to see profit on a weekly show after all expenses are considered.

So I don't really care if drivers get in free, but it's going to enter my math in deciding what to pay. Heck, I'll let everyone in back side in free and you can race for and divy up what comes in the front gate. To me it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. But at the end of the day, your purse is dictated by what the promoter believes is going to walk in the gate on both sides of the track.

So Wayne, if you were to race at our track and you send me a contract saying your drivers get in free, I'm going to evaluate it based on less revenue. So if 33 drivers are racing and you say all drivers get in free and the purse is $3,000.. that's the same as saying all drivers buy a pit pass and our purse is $4,000 assuming the class is not going to enhance the front gate over an alternative class. There is no free lunch in this business. Again, math is math.