[DAD]

Just sitting around readings the trades and noticed that the auto makers are forging ahead with smaller and smaller motors and forcing the air in for more power. They did this forced induction stuff in race cars back in the 30's and I guess scarred everybody with it's cost and potential. Most race organizations in the US have chosen to ban forced induction. Since 1956 or so they have stayed more or less with the same formula for Stock Cars>>Midgets> and Sprint Cars.

Racing used to be the development ground for the Auto Makers now it seems that racers are content to stick with the status quo. Will racing ever be the hot bed of New Ideas for the future or will it languish in Ideas dated from the 1950's?

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015...oboost-engine/

Honest Dad himself

[badcoupe]

Funny how the Germans been doing it forever but the Mexican, I mean American idiot companies are just now doing it! I love turbos especially my Porsche, I wish we could do that in our type of cars, it would take some tailoring to get the power band right for what we do

[DAD]

Bad

The Germans call them Compressors maybe a better description of what they really are. I think Mechanical Compressors might be our best answer. As with almost any forced induction motor the torque curve is very flat from low revs up until red-line or whatever you want to call the stopping point>>So horsepower would be controlled by the driver and throttle modulation.

I think perhaps the Americans might be right up at the top of the class on this newer stuff. Direct injection>>variable cam timing>>inner-cooling>>and water or methanol injection for charge cooling are all on their Cad screens right now.

I am not sure they have anything to compete with the big 400+ cubic inch motors but they have all kinds of designs that would work well in a Midget. The problem is no group will relax it's rules enough to allow experimentation.

I guess with the invent of the 5 axis mill we really don't need to try to run one of the stock block motors with or without compressor, all we have to do is get a cad operator to mill us out a one off monster block and go racing. Probably as with everything else we will just hire it out over-seas where a 12 year old kid will produce our antique race motors for us and we will pay out the Ya-zoo for the chance to get our hands on the latest greatest antique reproduction of a vintage Chevrolet 265 or Ford Pinto.

Honest Dad himself

[badcoupe]

If say we'll be skipping the cnc soon for 3d metal printers. Watch some of the insidekoeniggsegg videos on YouTube, fascinating stuff

[Bill84]

Like was mentioned here before, when fuel injection came out, everyone (in the micro/mini world) was scared of it because it was voodoo power. Now we are hard pressed to find used bike motors without it, so it's pretty much the norm. I think forced induction is on the horizon, but my thought is that we wait until motor kits are available at a reasonable price, and fairly plentiful. Then why not?

Bill

[Unlucky#9]

Or have the fabrication skills to instal one yourself. It's just a bunch of piping and an increase in fuel to match the increase in air. Heck, I installed a turbo out of a diesel truck in my little 4 cylinder car about a year and a half ago. Talk about a major increase in top end power(it's so laggy that it really doesn't start spooling until about 3500-3700, then it just takes off).

[DAD]

For the last 20 years or so their has been one group of racers that have kept up with technology and that has been the Motorcycle powered Midgets. But now they are may also be faced with a dilemma. The Motorcycle manufactures have reached a point 200+ Horsepower per 1000cc's of displacement that they can not make more power economically and reliably without resorting to forcing the intake charge into the cylinders. Already sanctioning bodies are frowning on the BMW and new Kawasaki Motors because they feel that they "might" have an unfair advantage over the competition. They forget that the life expectancy of these motors is usually around 2 to 4 years in most cases. This is also about the time between technological advancements in each of the manufactures motor development programs.

POWRi has just stated sanctioning Division II Midgets. Division II Midgets right now are a Hybrid form of Midget consisting of Chain drive Motorcycle engined cars and cars powered by small 2400cc 4 valve automotive motors, mostly Focus>>Ecotec>>Honda.

The auto makers are also developing newer engine designs all the time. Soon the Focus and Ecotec's will have been replaced by newer smaller and more efficient and powerful designs.

Do we stick our heads in the sand or do we make rules that will accommodate for the now very rapidly advancement of engine design. The old V8 Chevy stuck around 60+ years today the new engines are obsolete in 10 years .

Turbochargers used to be very expensive in the 1970's now we can pick one up at a salvage yard for a hundred bucks. Turbo charging is a much cheaper way to make power without a lot of expensive engine work and resorting to special heads etc. If you can't try you will never know>

Honest Dad himself

[TQ29m]

DAD, so you figure a "HUFFER" is the way to go, didn't Kaw try that a few years back, and I have a scientist friend in Texas that builds them for drag racing, just tell him how fast, and how far, and he'll add turbo's till you fall over backwards, but he doesn't recommend them for circle track racing, not that they don't spool up quick enough, they don't know when to quit, but they do! Bob

[badcoupe]

Top end pull is great but with careful compressor and turbine size selections you can make one spool quick and fall off earlier. I've turboed plenty of cars for customers and friends alike and turbo selection is key you can make the same engine two totally different ways. Tuning the ve tables and timing maps as well plays a big part in spool time and power output or just plain exploding it!

[DAD]

Bob

I am glad you said "HUFFER" first. With legalized pot I was afraid somebody would accuse me of partaking of a little "Toluene" a very favorable past time of the kids a few years back. I am more for Mechanical Pumpers that is the way Kawasaki went with their 2015 300 Horsepower 1000cc H2 Bike.

Our RPM's don't really drop off much after the car gets moving and I really don't think spooling would be a problem the problem is changing attitudes and rules that have been in effect for the last 75 years or so. I am amazed at how fast things are changing, probably before we finish this debate we will be talking about battery construction and AC vs DC motors.

Racing isn't relevant any more. Everything is made for racing only and if you can't afford an expensive low production high cost racing engine you just don't go racing. Rules are designed to keep these dinosaurs in existence and rule out newer and possible better and inexpensive stock motors. How many 305 sprints actually use a 305 stock block motor? Wish they would let me run a nice 4 valve 4 liter new car motor with them?

Honest Dad himself