[DAD]

Originally Posted by DaGuy Dad seems to be pretty correct on alot of this. Most of these production engines seem to be pretty even in stock configuration(between 175-200 hp ford chevy chrysler honda). If you keep that configuration and limit to rods and springs you keep things affordable and even.

Da

USAC flying under the radar is actually sanctioning a group of Midget style cars out east racing all Neon Motors. Kind of like a Legends car deal. Everybody races the same car and engine bought from one guy. They out did us and got a big write up.


Honest Dad himself

[polecar]

what does everyone think about being able to swap parts? like 2.0 head 2.2 block and 2.4 crank. and still be 2.4 displacement. i don't really like it. it takes away from the stock 2.4 motor.

[Bear10]

I have a huge problem with the D2 group! In my oppinion there is either a lightning sprint or a midget! There is no in between ! An ecotec is a class that was started and failed!!! And failed miserably! In my oppinion if you want to go midget racing than pony up and do it! If you WAnt your bang for your buck build a lightning sprint and never mix the two! If there is a race such as duquoin than it should be called an open race! And I know all you eco tec guys will start in complaining now but honestly! Is it really a class? Is it going to work? Absolutely not... there is no point! I have a problem of when a single person builds a series up and gets absolutely no recognition for it nor does he ask for it and some guy sits in an interview and lies about mmsa and says false things about it! I believe that mmsa has had the best year they have had in 5 years and multiple races over 25 cars this year . How many races has D2 had over 15? Not very dam many and when they do. It's because mmsa drivers go and race! Get a grip guys . Eother enjoy a great form of racing like lightning sprints or go be a midget driver and quit trying to make something that will never happen !!! Been tried before by much bigger and better groups and it just won't go!

[DAD]

Bear

Last time I checked a Lightning Sprint AKA Mini Sprint is a Midget chassis powered with a Motorcycle engine. D II Midgets are either Mini Sprints or Automotive Engine powered Midgets. Midgets are Midget cars powered by a Toyota TRO motor. Then you have all the Midget cars powered by everything from Chevy II motors to tall port Esslingers. These things are pretty close except for them darned Toyota's. Mini Sprints are cursed by some people I think because they have wings. Other people will not race unless they have a wing.

You race a Midget somewhere between an ECOtec and a TRO. You probably don't do well against the TRO's. The way I see thing is that class one rung below the TRO's would like to have some place to run. Like the ECOtecs you have branched out looking for other places to race. Montpelier is a great place, heck we can get a Mini Sprint up mid pack in the Main there. We love it, Harold has done one heck of a job their. In fact I think some guy in an ECOtec actually won a race up there.

I hate the term Lightning Sprint. Everything on our Mini Sprint is off of a Midget and on a small track we will give most Midgets a run for the Money. What the heck is wrong with calling my car a Midget. Sounds like you lost one of your tracks for the rest of the year. What I would like to see is a challenge race between the Salem cars and you guys.

I am an instigator, I stir the pot you might say. I for one don't see much difference between your car and a Mini Sprint or ECOtec. I think they could put on one heck of a race together. What we need to do is sit down and see how we could also get the older midgets>>>the Mini Sprints>>>and the ECOtec's racing together. I think it would be great for everybody. But then >>>>>>>>>>. I got a guy that want's to sell me an old Pontiac, >>>>man that thing has some serious torque.

Honest Dad himself

[Bear10]

Who wants to race a car and run midpack??? And know that that is winning for you?? That's about as dumb as they come! Who wants to do that!

[DAD]

Bear

Bear I am the kind of guy that will step up and ask the promoters to let them all race to make a better show.

Last time you ran Montpelier where did you finish??

I took the liberty to go back to Montpeliers results and it looked like one of AJ Felker's Mini Sprints finished right behind you.

I am more concerned with the racers with the old Pontiac's and Gaerte's ,older Esslinger's and even VW's. There are a lot of these motors and Midgets laying around. All of them would compete well with the newer Mini Sprints and ECOtec's and could still put on one heck of a race racing together, racing on small 1/4 mile tracks. Unless you have a newer Esslinger motor even racing at Montpelier you also going to place 5th or back.

If and when people decide to build a special right rear tire for this particular class of Midget the competition will really tighten up. Me I am just watching and waiting There is racing beyond National Midget Racing>>> all you need is for racers to step up and make a change in the formula.

Honest Dad himself

[jjones752]

I don't know how the results turn out down in Florida and Chet's the only guy with an Ecotec who's regularly run at Salem but I've gone out to Illinois a number of times the last 2 years to run with the IMRA and combined IMRA/ILSS/BAM shows and I can tell you that the Ecotecs and motorcycle-powered cars are very closely matched. I don't know what the difference is but motorcycle power wins just as frequently as automotive. At Lincoln two weeks in a row I even found myself running mid pack with a group of Midgets (yes, I consider them all to be Midgets) of mixed motivation. If everybody would get off the keyboards and just race you may be surprised at how it will all work itself out...

[LEADERS EDGE]

Ok....so when the same people who we are trying to start new racing series to get away from....get on board with the program and start winning all of the races again....is that when we change the formula again? Don't you guys think that Toyota,Honda, Chevy, Ford and Kia wouldn't rather just use engine packages like in their street cars rather than build specific racing engines? What do you think will happen then? There are several teams who use and have used the Toyota engines.....but only one team has dominated. Oddly....it's the same team that won races when they had Chevys and when they had Esslingers and when they had Fontanas and when they MoPars. Something tells me it's not just the engines. Trust me....95% of the guys racing aren't a motor rule and tire change away from being a hero.

[gearguy]

Who gets to define what a midget is? Traditionally, going back to the start in the 1930s, it was an open wheel race car with a 66" to 72" wheelbase. The 1939 rule book was all of two pages long. Over the years there have been outboards, motorcycles, auto motors, portions of auto racing motors, and all out racing motors. Rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, even four wheel drive. Front engine, rear engine, and side engine. What has changed over the years is the engine rules, tire rules, and weight rules. While I personally hate wings, they too have had their place in midget racing.
The current national engine formula was negotiated over many years to suit the various whining car owners. Changing it now is no different than when clubs let the Offy in or increased the displacement limit for other types of motors. Wasn't one series known as the "gasket club" for banning the Offy? Minnesota once had a 200 inch limit while everyone else followed the NAMAR package.
As far as swapping heads/blocks around, if you do this a few seasons you will end up with a motley assortment of useable parts. If they bolt together why not race them?

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Bear10 I have a huge problem with the D2 group! In my oppinion there is either a lightning sprint or a midget! There is no in between ! An ecotec is a class that was started and failed!!! And failed miserably! In my oppinion if you want to go midget racing than pony up and do it! If you WAnt your bang for your buck build a lightning sprint and never mix the two! If there is a race such as duquoin than it should be called an open race! And I know all you eco tec guys will start in complaining now but honestly! Is it really a class? Is it going to work? Absolutely not... there is no point! I have a problem of when a single person builds a series up and gets absolutely no recognition for it nor does he ask for it and some guy sits in an interview and lies about mmsa and says false things about it! I believe that mmsa has had the best year they have had in 5 years and multiple races over 25 cars this year . How many races has D2 had over 15? Not very dam many and when they do. It's because mmsa drivers go and race! Get a grip guys . Eother enjoy a great form of racing like lightning sprints or go be a midget driver and quit trying to make something that will never happen !!! Been tried before by much bigger and better groups and it just won't go!

Bear

I read your post over several times. I "ass"ume you to be a Midget racer with a well worn old Midget, wanting some place to race. But as I read the above post I see a Mini Sprint Racer wanting to find fault with the Division II concept. I am a guy that likes racing Midgets in any form that they might chose to race in. We have raced Mini Sprints for years and Years. We have raced every where from Little Salem with the 600cc cars to the Buckeye 600cc racers under Bill May to the AMSA 1200cc cars under Jerry Teague and them with the MMSA with Allen Ruppethal and Bill May again and lastly with the MMSA under Andy Bradley.

Andy has done a heck of a job with the MMSA fighting an up hill battle with the Economy, and producing some very good races at some very good race tracks. I can remember when the economy prevented him from racing as much as he would have liked, but he kept on racing.

Have you ever raced in any Mini Sprint races? I thought that you raced an old Midget up at Montpelier and had gone out and secured races at other tracks around the area you live in to get more seat time for the Montpelier bunch. Now I read in your post that Mini Sprints and Midgets should never Mix. Well Harold up at Montpelier has been very successful racing the cars together and one of the biggest proponents of this class races a Mini SPRINT up at Montpelier. He swears he will never sit under a wing to race and I keep telling him he doesn't know what he is missing by not doing so.

I might be called a hot head by some, in fact by a lot. For us hot heads there is nothing like Competing groups it always gives us someplace to race when we get "P"'d off. I have always been fortunate enough when I got mad at a group for saying my frame was illegal or my nerf bar was too wide I could always find another group to race with. If you are in fact a Midget racer you should be glad to see the D II concept take root. Lord knows that a good slightly used Gearte could run with an ECOtec. We already know that Mini Sprints can run with the ECOtec cars. There are a couple of kids in Illinois that win regularly racing against them.

PowrI brings a lot of clout to Midget racing 10 years or so ago they were a start up group with no chance of competing with the big boys. Well they managed to survive and thrive. They can bring with them good purses, outstanding Insurance for the racers and a lot more National exposure. Lets work on PowrI to get them to include the 10 year old Midget motors to race and have fun. Some of us do not have the funds to go any further in racing and frankly do not wish to go any further. I am talking about travel time. Some of us do not wish to race as hard as the young hot shoes just passing through on their way to fame and glory. We have jobs and family we hold more dear than racing. It sure would be nice to have a group close to home that we could race at. Lets work on a way to race Midgets and have fun and not have to put the farm in hock to do it.

Honest Dad himself