[david mitchell]

Since the silver crown debate was restarted this week,i think i will ask question.why is dirt racing more popular than pavement racing.when usac had full fields at winchester,salem,irp,etc,it was great.i defy anyone to tell me that a race at winchester as recent as 2007 with a full field was not the most exciting racing you could see.true,there really is no pavement open wheel racing left as such.maybe that is why it is not popular.it does not really exist.personally,i believe to be a true race car driver you need to excel at both.stewart,clauson,larson,vogler,are recent examples.no one would argue that donny schatz is probably the best winged sprint car driver of all time behind steve.but all around,no.the greats could do both.you cannot argue that.

[flagboy55]

From my perspective, the demise of pavement racing began when you had to have a car built especially for it to be competitive. I'll never forget the days of running say Sante Fe on Friday and maybe Illiana on Saturday with the same sprint car. Change bars, shocks, maybe swap the Jake to the other side or swap it for a panhard bar, and boom you ran both pavement and dirt with the same car. Those were truly the good old days

[Phylo82]

The short answer......money got involved.

You see it now at all levels of racing. I remember in quarter midgets when you needed to have a Ti rear axle and a new set of Vega tires every week if you wanted to be competitive.

Then came 1000cc midgets for us. If you didn't have a bulked up motor and a $2000 set of shocks you weren't going to run up front......and those motors were still considered stock.

As someone mentioned. It's hard to compete on pavement without a car designed for pavement and a couple of new sets of tires for each race. That's a lot of $$$$.

And finally, just look at what money has done to NASCAR. Would you rather watch a parade of identical cars going in circles at 200mph or cars going 180mph and actually racing each other?

[1121]

I was just going to ignore this thread. I told myself I had more important things to do. You see, I am getting our car ready for one of these non-existent pavement races at Fort Wayne tomorrow. But it kept gnawing at me, so I finally had to stop and set down in front of my computer.

To paraphrase, the demise of pavement racing is greatly exaggerated. In the Midwest alone, we have the Auto Vale Super Sprints, the King of Wings series (which is technically a national series), MSR, the Illini midget series, the Kenyon Midget series, MSA and IMSA. Add into this, stand-alone races like the Little 500 (my favorite), The Glen Niebel Classic, and the Tony Elliott Classic. Plus the pavement part of the USAC Silver Crown series. I’m sure I’m forgetting some, so forgive me if any of you are running or watching anything other than these.

Yes, we have a pavement sprint car, and we also have a Maxim dirt car. Believe it or not, there’s no rule against running a dirt car on pavement and we do it all the time. And depending on the track, it can be competitive. We just came off a three race weekend where we ran both cars on all three tracks. Teams have had pavement only cars dating back into the 50’s.

If we wanted to, in just the three state area, (Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan) we could run our sprint car about 25 times if we chose, but since we both work 55-60 hours a week, we chose not to. We will probably run about 10 races locally. But it’s a time factor, not a money factor.

As I mentioned, we have a dirt car. But we actually run the pavement car more. Why? It’s simple. MONEY! I know this will surprise many of you, but we can make more money running our pavement car than running our dirt car. Many times running our pavement car has given a bit extra money so we can run the dirt car for the lesser purses that most dirt series pay. Not a shot towards dirt, I love dirt track racing, just most shows pay less than pavement shows.

Contrary to popular belief, we are not buying 6-8 tires a night. In fact, I don’t know any teams that are. We budget 1-1/2 tires a night. (Before any of you smart a$$es start up on the ½ tire, we buy one tire one night and then two tires the next night.) The used tires go on the dirt car when we want to run it on pavement. With a good driver, you can run up front on two tires a night. I ran third in the Auto Value Super Sprint series points last year using this budget.

Two weekends ago, we ran with the King of Wings series. We ran Kalamazoo, Toledo and Auto City Speedway (Clio, MI). We had full fields and good crowds at Kalamazoo and Toledo. We had 20 cars at Auto City, but sadly got rained out.

Is pavement racing as strong as it once was? No, but what is? Crowds are down everywhere and so is car count. Just look at Gas City only running a couple of races a year opposed to them having 30+ cars in the pits every week just a few years ago. I hate to use them as an overused example, but I remember people pulling in there with new cars and big toter homes just to go home with $25 tow money and come back the next week for more.

If you truly want to see pavement racing, it’s real simple. Step away from your computer or get off your couch and go. I’ll be in the yellow #11 or the white 100 depending on who wins the team coin toss!

Tom Paterson

[TQ29m]

Guys, I am glad you took the time to tell this"troll" how it is, he has been on a rant ever since he crawled into the discussions, mostly for attention, must be lonely where he is, I know all you guys have been faithful to the sport, without any grumbling, and actually doing it, I don't feel sorry for this blivet, I just look past his pityful butt! Bob

[Charles Nungester]

Depends on the weather.

[davidm]

There is also the NEMA Midget series and Virginia Sprints that split their schedule between dirt and asphalt.

[darnall]

I'm going to piggyback on 1121s reply a bit...

As much as I hate wings on dirt cars, I think they have done wonders for the state of pavement racing. When the tire and springs are your only source of grip good new tires are way way better than used... if everybody has and extra 33 sq ft of aero grip, the tire is a much smaller part of the equation.

Also seems that the wings widen out asphalt tracks quite a bit and allow much more side by side racing and passing.

And the first couple years of the Must See series and their TV deal the 2 fastest cars in the series were a couple of decades old dirt cars... the yellow 50m with Gerster and the orange 81 with Decaire were both reportedly 20 year old dirt cars that had been tinkered with.... so clearly as stated by 1121 a good driver in a dirt car and used tires can be competitive.. Thanks for the inside info man.

[revjimk]

I'm sure its a matter of personal preference. I got into dirt track racing in Virginia, early 1960s, "Coupes".... jalopies, sportsmen, modified. We moved back up North in 1966, I went to 2 races on pavement, lost all interest.
Fast forward 40 years, a friend gave me a Circle Track magazine, it mentioned sprint cars in Pa. I was going there the next day, found a race (on dirt!) was hooked again, been going the last 7 years
I don't think there's any right or wrong to it, not trying to convince anyone, dirt just seems more exciting to me....

[david mitchell]

Tq29,i thought all were welcome on the forum.i liked trolls when i was a kid,had the house and everything.it was great.the ones with the long hair and plastic eyes.they are the best.i liked the one with pink hair and green eyes.which one did you like.🌦🌦🌦🌦🌦