[SoIllSprinter]

A point I made in an earlier post, Haubstadt just ran a $5000 to win show for non wing and 22 cars signed in. What, then, is the incentive to pay higher purses? It’s head scratching.

[Jonr]

Originally Posted by spankytoo ..... So then why do these guys continue to show up to races that pay less than $5-6K to win? We commonly see Grant, Leary, Bacon, Ktj, Seavy, Ballou, etc. showing up to local races which pay $1,500 to win. Maybe one thought.. USAC doesn't keep them busy enough. As a USAC guy showing up to a local race, they probably have: $150 in pit passes, $100 in truck fuel, approximately 3 new tires they throw away at the end of the day($750), and maybe another $50 in racecar fuel. So they have to win to make money (~$400). Anything less and it is a loss. And this doesn't even account for cost of a motor rebuild at ~$300 per race. ... I don't think most people realize the cost of the sport and how much more money wing racing gets just to show up. Wing racing has set a precedent for how much money they will race for. Why should local Indiana tracks raise their pay when top level talent continues to come for the measly $1400-$1500 to win and $200 to start?

This point has been brought up many times. Many of the non-wing drivers are there own worst enemy. Very, very rarely do you ever see a WOO regular at a local show. However, you see that all of the time with the non-wing shows. I understand the argument that winning $1500 helps pays the bills when staying at home does not, but it is a not a play that wins in the long run.

I also remember threads on this forum about people complaining about paying to watch a USAC show because it was mostly the same drivers racing their last weekend for half the cost. Once again, a WOO ticket is an expensive ticket, but people will routinely pay for it.

Probably the best example of drivers understanding their worth is the dirt Late Model scene. Somehow there are two national touring series that seem to pay well and race for large amounts. You may see a driver crossing series, but you will never see them at a local race.

[Rhody]

Originally Posted by captrat Anecdotal examples does not make a trend.

Buddy Kofoid, Damion Gardner, Robert Ballou, Tanner Carrick...

[PJ Wright]

Well despite a good start to this thread, it has predictably deteriorated to the point that is firmly in 'beating the dead horse' territory. Bottom line for me: I like wingless best. I have no interest in engaging in any "this kind is better, these drivers are more talented, blah blah blah". I attended my first race in 1967 and since then I've witnessed just about every kind of motorized competition imaginable. You like what you like and I'll continue to enjoy USAC, BOSS, MSCS and weekly racing at tracks that feature wingless sprintcars.

[spankytoo]

Originally Posted by SoIllSprinter A point I made in an earlier post, Haubstadt just ran a $5000 to win show for non wing and 22 cars signed in. What, then, is the incentive to pay higher purses? It’s head scratching.

The high win amount attracts the USAC guys if they're not busy, but the pay out below 5th is the same. Tri-State is a 3 hour drive for most Non-wing guys so if an extra 6 to 8 USAC drivers show up that means that the local guy may only finish 12 to 20, if they make the show. 10th to 20th needs to pay better. You need to take care of the field fillers.

[Hubie48]

I don't think most people realize the cost of the sport and how much more money wing racing gets just to show up. Wing racing has set a precedent for how much money they will race for. Why should local Indiana tracks raise their pay when top level talent continues to come for the measly $1400-$1500 to win and $200 to start?

I am of the opinion that the Non Wing guys would race for ham sandwiches! Put me in the "Non-Wing" category. Other than reading the race results, I never watched it until I got Flo TV. I have found myself watching the All Stars but truth be told the main reason is watching Tyler Courtney. Guy is a talent, plain and simple. Being around the sport for years has lead me to believe there is some unknown caste system built into USAC. There is a large crowd of super talented people behind the scenes. The engine building, fabrication and overall grasp of racing science is second to none.

At the end of the day I am just a fan. I truly love the sport.

[racefan20]

Originally Posted by WingedFan2019 Wing is way better. Winged drivers make the same moves Non-wing drivers make, except theyre a second or 2 faster a lap. also, there's more young talent in Winged racing right now than there is in non-wing. We've seen non-wing guys attempt to use a wing and theyre just not competitive. (with the exception of Tyler Courtney, who is having a great year) Im not trying to bash on non wing because ive seen some great races, but its just not as good as winged.

I beg to differ on that point. I was watching one of the nights of Ohio Speedweek and noticed that 5
of the top 5 and 6 of the top 10 that night had run regular with USAC at one point in their careers. Add Bayston and Schuerenberg and that makes a third of the field. Not competitive???? Now on the other hand imagine what a USAC field would look like if those guys still drove with them. Food for thought.

6/16/2021 at Waynesfield Raceway Park
410 Sprints - Winged

FloRacing A Feature (35 Laps): 1. 57-Kyle Larson[2]; 2. 24-Rico Abreu[3]; 3. 7BC-Tyler Courtney[4]; 4. 19-Parker Price Miller[8]; 5. 10-Zeb Wise[5]; 6. 26-Cory Eliason[9]; 7. 13-Justin Peck[14]; 8. 49X-Cale Thomas[1]; 9. 5-Paul McMahan[12]; 10. 4-Cap Henry[13]; 11. 97-Craig Mintz[10]; 12. 22C-Cole Duncan[17]; 13. 22H-Jac Haudenschild[11]; 14. 28-Tim Shaffer[24]; 15. 11-Spencer Bayston[18]; 16. 18-Cole Macedo[15]; 17. 48-Danny Dietrich[23]; 18. 17B-Bill Balog[6]; 19. 91-Kyle Reinhardt[16]; 20. 16-DJ Foos[20]; 21. 101-Lachlan McHugh[22]; 22. 3C-Cale Conley[21]; 23. 1-Nate Dussel[19]; 24. 55-Hunter Schuerenberg[25]; 25. 15H-Sam Hafertepe Jr[7]

[BrentTFunk]

I do think the Outlaws are better than ever right now. Saw my first Outlaw race in 1978. It was run without wings. Even with a horrible format that always starts the fast guys upfront, their features are usually good, but they have to get in lapped traffic. That is where the wing guys really shine. The All Stars are stronger than have been since Guy Webb nearly destroyed them. Beyond that I don't see any real growth in wings. Part of that is it's so divided between 410, 360, and 305.
I feel non wing is in a growth spurt in PA. Between Kutztown and the USAC east coast sprints, there is a pipeline to develop new talent. Enjoy what you want, but the winners in both are the only ones really making money

[Will Shunk]

Not to move away from the initial thread but does USAC's juggling a triple crown schedule running 3 distinct open wheel series from February to November have any impact on national audience awareness vs the single series in wings barnstorming the country...WoO, ASCoC, ASCS? Old days USAC was dirt & pavement, run a midget, then a sprint car, then Silver Crown as a ladder with national implications when you got to the top of your game. Is the be all, for all, the problem? Not having a premier, top level to reach the problem (was indy car long time ago)? I enjoy and follow all USAC since 1967 but today it appears to be a feeder system for other series, hence the purse money and lack of blockbuster marquee events. Just a lot of 6K to 10K shows sprinkled in each series. I can accept that if that is what it has to be.

[TQ29m]

My opinion is simple and short, the only ones that can afford to race are the ones that win most of the races, have really good sponsors, or just won the lottery, the rest are kidding themselves, in non wing at least, there was a time long ago, a good driver and owner could make a decent living racing, look at all the famous names who are still around and how they are living, they did something right.