[baileyracing7]

I have read on 1 of the other posts that people are putting different year heads on different lower ends. Is this legal?
By the way I read the rules it says stock motors this would not be stock. Right or am I wrong?
When I was in Duquion I over heard 2 old guys talking about that and 1 of said he taught he could put a Kawasaki head on a Yamaha lower end .

[bobbyg45]

I would contact Andy Bradley on that one or message him on here bradleyracing86

[DAD]

Originally Posted by baileyracing7 I have read on 1 of the other posts that people are putting different year heads on different lower ends. Is this legal? By the way I read the rules it says stock motors this would not be stock. Right or am I wrong? When I was in Duquion I over heard 2 old guys talking about that and 1 of said he taught he could put a Kawasaki head on a Yamaha lower end .

Bailey

I represent being called Old. You was listening to two of the youngest guys their not counting those kids in the Jr. Sprint cars. That would have been me and Bobby Layne. On many cycle motors the engines are just like Automobile engines. They keep the same basic design of the motor year to year making suttle changes every year, sometimes to make them faster and sometimes to make them slower. In fact the Gen I Kawasaki was the power house of the Kawasaki Line for years. That was 04-05>>Kawasaki actually felt they made too much power (dumping too many riders) and de-tuned the Gen II motors with milder cams and smaller valves. Both Heads interchange with one another. What we found also is the Gen II motors were easier to drive, the Gen I produced Horsepower so rapidly that it was hard for the driver to keep the rear tires hooked up. Did I mention that the Gen II also had a heavier crank and flywheel. While producing less Horsepower the Gen II was a better motor to race with.

Many times when people start out in racing they think the only answer is Horsepower at any costs. When in fact the important thing is to get all the horsepower that you can to race track. I am sure that many of you guys are spending your money to have a tuner de-tuned your motor thus making you faster, those that are paying for the ultimate horsepower, race cams>>High comp pistons>> ect are actually having your money go up in smoke (Tire Smoke). There is an old saying in racing "Slow is Fast" it is very hard to convince a guy new to racing that that is true but it definitely is true.

As far as Bobby putting a Kaw head on a Yamaha, I would have to do some measuring to believe that. You have non movable things like Bore centers Head heights and bolt hole locations to consider also. Seems it would be simpler and cheaper just to buy a Kawasaki Motor. The head fits on like it was made for it.

The Motorcycle manufactures in their wisdom never produced Engine case numbers that could be used to identify engine year. In the past they would sometimes separate years by changing the color of the valve covers and side covers. The know how guys just put older side covers on newer motors.

When push comes to shove, the truth is any motor especially a race motor has a finite life span, we usually get 3 to 5 years out of one. When it blows it is much cheaper to go find a new motor and put in in your car and go race for another half of a decade than to spend time and money trying to build a giant killer. The giant killer should be sitting in the race car seat.

By the way that one kid went on to win the race, and he was driving an eleven year old Yamaha R-1 5 valve motor (Considered by many to be a very Old School Motor). That is basically what we were talking about the fact that a lot of guys with Bad A$$ Kawasakis ZX10Rs in the group he was racing in could not figure how he was out running them. Go figure.

Honest Dad himself

[oldfan49]

Bob putting heads from one type of block on another type of block? Naw he would never do that LOL

[cmiracingvids]

I would say that is going against the "intent" of the rule. Which is to keep costs down by just taking a stock bike motor and dropping it in and racing. If you had a new head and a new lower end, they each came from an engine. So you have two engines. I know at Bloomington they checked to make sure you had stock Pistons. I would imagine having stock heads for that engine is also a rule. But, as Bobby said, check with Andy or whoever runs ILSS and MALS.

[DAD]

Old

Well he said he could and was all against it. But if a guy has an aero space machine shop he could just whittle out a whole new one if he wanted on his lunch break.

Racing and Old wives tale stories all go together.

Bet it would be a whole lot harder to whittle another Bobby Layne>and that what it takes to win.

I am from Louisville Kentucky and the smart handicappers down here bet the jockey and not the horse.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by cmiracingvids I would say that is going against the "intent" of the rule. Which is to keep costs down by just taking a stock bike motor and dropping it in and racing. If you had a new head and a new lower end, they each came from an engine. So you have two engines. I know at Bloomington they checked to make sure you had stock Pistons. I would imagine having stock heads for that engine is also a rule. But, as Bobby said, check with Andy or whoever runs ILSS and MALS.

Cima

One of these days I would like to get together with you and produce an engine tec video.

The poor old engine take a lot of heat for poor track performance, and every winning car is considered a cheater by one person or another.

Rules need to be designed so that they can be enforced and inspected easily at the track after a race. Every race.>>>>>
Not so much to catch cheaters but to reinforce to the doubters that they are being beat by something other than the motor. Checking for the right head and internal parts is beyond the scope of a track side inspection.

However we do have the tools to check for Piston shape, cylinder head thickness, valve lift, even the presence of after market rods if we desire.

We are racing motors with the horsepower per cc equivalent of Formula I racing cars. Were I to think that I could get another 20 horsepower out of my motor and not be racing a hand-grenade would be very naive.

We run pretty good and when we get beat it is because we started too far back or we got out drove and out setup by our competition. Some times all three of the above. Usually motor cheating to us is the furthest thing from our minds.

Honest Dad himself

[bobbyg45]

If im not mistaken isnt there a serial number on the head that match the block numbers?

[DAD]

Bobby

Not that I am aware of. You guys are reading too much into this.

Honest Dad himself

[oldfan49]

Originally Posted by DAD Old Well he said he could and was all against it. But if a guy has an aero space machine shop he could just whittle out a whole new one if he wanted on his lunch break. Honest Dad himself

Oh I have no doubt he could if he wanted, Seen he and his brother do a lot of amazing things hanging around them around the last 40 years. Seen quite a few "Layne" rules as well LOL