[ClaytonYeley]

Not sure i agree with this. I've noticed empty bleachers at sanoma and the Canada races. So if the reality of the situation is that you have about 30k at both street and ovals. Then why does the indycar community believe that 30k on a street race (where you can't see the crowd) a success? And 30k at an oval where you can see the crowd a failure? I just don't think a formula feeder series will ever work in the US.

[cecil98]

Originally Posted by illiNOISE I know this won't go down very well on this forum, but what Indy Car really needs is more races with fans in the stands. They get that with the road course races. The ovals, not as much, at least not consistently.

The road courses aren't drawing as well as they appear, either. My understanding is they corral the fans into certain areas to make it appear that they have a better crowd than they actually have...

[ClaytonYeley]

Something else that drives me crazy is if you go to trackforum then you will see thread after thread about how it's not politically correct to cheer for the American because they are American. What? When I bet those people beat their heads against the wall during the Olympics. What's wrong with a little USA patriotism?

[767]

Originally Posted by cecil98 The road courses aren't drawing as well as they appear, either. My understanding is they corral the fans into certain areas to make it appear that they have a better crowd than they actually have...

I would have to disagree with that. I watched every single race. All of the road courses and street circuits have fans strung out around the course. I am sure like the ovals, they do shut down certain stands. The difference between ovals and street circuits, is the Sponsorship. It is easier to get sponsorship for a street circuit than an oval. Think of how many people are going to see the advertising. On an oval it will just be the people that attend the race. On a street circuit, anyone in the area will see the advertising. Banners start getting hung the week before the race. In some cases, some will not get taken down for about a week after the race. How many Thousands of people work in these areas. Look at the ones that run along Busy interstates, you know that advertising is set up so that the people driving can see them. You may have 15 or 20 thousand fans that purchase tickets to the race, but how many people are on Roof tops and watching out of buildings? if you are a company and you have just enough money to be the title sponsor for 1 race, which race are you going to spend it at, an oval where 30,000 maximum are going to see it, or a road course that has 15,000 ticket fans on race day who knows how many fans in buildings and on roof tops + prerace and post race advertising. This is why Baltimore can get a huge sponsor, and Milwaukee struggles.

[kasey2020]

The one major thing I would like to see different in Indycar is some sort of "green, white, checkard" finish. Too many races seem to end under yellow. I hate sitting through a really good race to have it end under caution! I watched most of the races this season and I do think they are heading in the right direction.

[rj1]

Originally Posted by 767 Sounds like Pocono will be on the 2013 schedule. Not sure what else they will muster up. Would really like to see Richmond get back on the schedule. I know Kentucky was a fan problem, that always made for a great race. I do not think Indy car will be at 50/50 for a few more years. Most of these places still struggle to get fans to show up. It is still going to take a few years to get the word out, how good things have become. We need another really good Indy 500 this year to keep things moving.

Pocono would be interesting I think because there's not been an Indycar race there for 23 years and setting up for the track is a compromise. It's an oval that's a bit of a road course, so I think the road course racers in the series that are not too keen on ovals would like it more.

Richmond I believe was only in the series as long as Philip Morris was a sponsor of Penske (Philip Morris is based in Richmond). I enjoyed Richmond and went to almost all the races they had there. Unfortunately, I went to the last race there where no one was capable of passing anyone else and if there's a race that was ever a crowd killer for years following it was that one.

[mr nobody]

Originally Posted by 767 Sounds like Pocono will be on the 2013 schedule. Not sure what else they will muster up. Would really like to see Richmond get back on the schedule. I know Kentucky was a fan problem, that always made for a great race. I do not think Indy car will be at 50/50 for a few more years. Most of these places still struggle to get fans to show up. It is still going to take a few years to get the word out, how good things have become. We need another really good Indy 500 this year to keep things moving.

Richmond will not be back. Great track, well attended races, great races but NASCAR has put the muscle on Richmond to lean towards them and away from Indycar. Also, a sponsor needs to be found before anything would proceed. Loudon was a one and done and won't be back. Phoenix and MIS were strongly talked about returning but their NASCAR dates eliminate them hosting Indycar races. Gateway is essentially no more, Nashville is for sale, Kentucky is gone until 2014 at the earliest. Not many other ovals to race at.

[cecil98]

Originally Posted by 767 I would have to disagree with that. I watched every single race. All of the road courses and street circuits have fans strung out around the course. I am sure like the ovals, they do shut down certain stands. The difference between ovals and street circuits, is the Sponsorship. It is easier to get sponsorship for a street circuit than an oval. Think of how many people are going to see the advertising. On an oval it will just be the people that attend the race. On a street circuit, anyone in the area will see the advertising. Banners start getting hung the week before the race. In some cases, some will not get taken down for about a week after the race. How many Thousands of people work in these areas. Look at the ones that run along Busy interstates, you know that advertising is set up so that the people driving can see them. You may have 15 or 20 thousand fans that purchase tickets to the race, but how many people are on Roof tops and watching out of buildings? if you are a company and you have just enough money to be the title sponsor for 1 race, which race are you going to spend it at, an oval where 30,000 maximum are going to see it, or a road course that has 15,000 ticket fans on race day who knows how many fans in buildings and on roof tops + prerace and post race advertising. This is why Baltimore can get a huge sponsor, and Milwaukee struggles.

What you're saying here about trackside advertising "may" be correct but, that doesn't translate into paying customers in the seats. Neither I, nor anyone else I know, goes to any race to see the advertisement banners (road, street or oval). Yes, there may be more exposure for your ad banner at a street race but, how does that translate into paying fans?????? The post I responded to was about getting more fans in the stands and comparing attendance at ovals vs. street/road courses.

[767]

Originally Posted by cecil98 What you're saying here about trackside advertising "may" be correct but, that doesn't translate into paying customers in the seats. Neither I, nor anyone else I know, goes to any race to see the advertisement banners (road, street or oval). Yes, there may be more exposure for your ad banner at a street race but, how does that translate into paying fans?????? The post I responded to was about getting more fans in the stands and comparing attendance at ovals vs. street/road courses.

If you were a company that had just enough buget to advertise at 1 race. Would you advertise at an oval race where just the paying ticket holders will see your advertising, or would you advertise at a street race? It is easier to get a sponsor for a street race. That is why there are so many of them. That is the point I was tring to make.

[cecil98]

Originally Posted by 767 If you were a company that had just enough buget to advertise at 1 race. Would you advertise at an oval race where just the paying ticket holders will see your advertising, or would you advertise at a street race? It is easier to get a sponsor for a street race. That is why there are so many of them. That is the point I was tring to make.

But that has nothing to do with attendance.....we weren't talking about how many banners were hanging at the events. The post we were talking about stated the wish for more fans in the stands at the ovals vs. the road courses and, someone else mentioned that he didn't believe the attendance at the street/road races was much higher than the ovals...it just appears that way..