[Kart#51]

Originally Posted by staggerman If you think Marks and Macri’s budgets to compete are not par of that of a Woo team you are mistaken. Both have full time crew chiefs and crew members, same cost of engines, tires, etc as any Woo team when they put the trailer down to race. Marks made the bulk of his money winning big Woo races he traveled too and Macri won some big PA All Star and Woo shows to bump up his number. Yes, is the cost of travel higher heading to California twice and everywhere else, yes. There is tow money to compensate towards that with Woo. Listen to Winged Nation’s interview with Brian Carter from WRG, I found it interesting

I don't think I'm mistaken. You made my whole point, and Brad Sweet illuminated it in his interview why people want High Limits races.

Those two teams barely left home and made $1M in total. Yes, Macri and Marks spend as much on their cars as the Outlaw guys, but where they don't spend there money is in travel. It probably takes $200K or more to go up and down the road and with rising costs of diesel, hotels and food.

I once had a driver who ran WoO and All Stars and other races throughout his career and said his bank account had more money in it when he ran the All Stars vs. the Outlaws cuz he didn't have to travel and could get home more often and didn't need a motorhome with the All Stars. This is the point I'm driving home. The gross numbers look great, but the net numbers aren't as robust.


I did listen to Brian Carter. His points were one sided, right? He wants to make sure that you're seeing it the way he wants you to see it. Are they making more than previously, yes They still only get $500 tow money per race. On a two day show they get one tow money fee and then they have to pay for the crew to stay at hotel and feed them for two nights, right? It takes anywhere between $1M-$1.2M to run the full deal at a competitive level, now some teams don't spend that and it shows, but the top teams do.
The math doesn't add up. The top teams use the sponsorships to cover their operational gaps financial.

[OnTheHammer]

Originally Posted by Kart#51 I don't think I'm mistaken. You made my whole point, and Brad Sweet illuminated it in his interview why people want High Limits races. Those two teams barely left home and made $1M in total. Yes, Macri and Marks spend as much on their cars as the Outlaw guys, but where they don't spend there money is in travel. It probably takes $200K or more to go up and down the road and with rising costs of diesel, hotels and food. I once had a driver who ran WoO and All Stars and other races throughout his career and said his bank account had more money in it when he ran the All Stars vs. the Outlaws cuz he didn't have to travel and could get home more often and didn't need a motorhome with the All Stars. This is the point I'm driving home. The gross numbers look great, but the net numbers aren't as robust. I did listen to Brian Carter. His points were one sided, right? He wants to make sure that you're seeing it the way he wants you to see it. Are they making more than previously, yes They still only get $500 tow money per race. On a two day show they get one tow money fee and then they have to pay for the crew to stay at hotel and feed them for two nights, right? It takes anywhere between $1M-$1.2M to run the full deal at a competitive level, now some teams don't spend that and it shows, but the top teams do. The math doesn't add up. The top teams use the sponsorships to cover their operational gaps financial.

Finally, someone brought up the sponsorship side of the equation.
I imagine NOS, Drydene or any of the other top teams sponsors wanting maximum value for their advertising dollars. I would think teams would be having some conversations with their sponsors on whether they prefer sponsoring a team exclusive to WoO or a team running both WoO & High Limit.

[cornerthree]

Originally Posted by Kart#51 I don't think I'm mistaken. You made my whole point, and Brad Sweet illuminated it in his interview why people want High Limits races. Those two teams barely left home and made $1M in total. Yes, Macri and Marks spend as much on their cars as the Outlaw guys, but where they don't spend there money is in travel. It probably takes $200K or more to go up and down the road and with rising costs of diesel, hotels and food. I once had a driver who ran WoO and All Stars and other races throughout his career and said his bank account had more money in it when he ran the All Stars vs. the Outlaws cuz he didn't have to travel and could get home more often and didn't need a motorhome with the All Stars. This is the point I'm driving home. The gross numbers look great, but the net numbers aren't as robust. I did listen to Brian Carter. His points were one sided, right? He wants to make sure that you're seeing it the way he wants you to see it. Are they making more than previously, yes They still only get $500 tow money per race. On a two day show they get one tow money fee and then they have to pay for the crew to stay at hotel and feed them for two nights, right? It takes anywhere between $1M-$1.2M to run the full deal at a competitive level, now some teams don't spend that and it shows, but the top teams do. The math doesn't add up. The top teams use the sponsorships to cover their operational gaps financial.

What percentage do the drivers get on a topWOO team? I don't know but that has to be taken off the prize money. So the owners are getting a lot less then the posted numbers. And do tewam owners get any cut off shirt sales? TIA

[dsc1600]

Originally Posted by Kart#51 I don't think I'm mistaken. You made my whole point, and Brad Sweet illuminated it in his interview why people want High Limits races. Those two teams barely left home and made $1M in total. Yes, Macri and Marks spend as much on their cars as the Outlaw guys, but where they don't spend there money is in travel. It probably takes $200K or more to go up and down the road and with rising costs of diesel, hotels and food. I once had a driver who ran WoO and All Stars and other races throughout his career and said his bank account had more money in it when he ran the All Stars vs. the Outlaws cuz he didn't have to travel and could get home more often and didn't need a motorhome with the All Stars. This is the point I'm driving home. The gross numbers look great, but the net numbers aren't as robust. .

It’s not true that Marks “barely left home”. He made more money outside of PA than inside.

[chrismattlin]

Originally Posted by dsc1600 It’s not true that Marks “barely left home”. He made more money outside of PA than inside.

Brent Marks did leave "home", but not for large stretches of time. The difference with The Outlaws are stretches like this:
Thursday-Saturday, Sept. 1-3 – Skagit Speedway
Monday, Sept. 5 – Grays Harbor Raceway
Friday-Saturday, Sept. 9-10 – Silver Dollar Speedway
Friday, Sept. 16 – Keller Auto Speedway
Saturday, Sept. 17 – Placerville Speedway

Your World of Outlaws team isn't going back to the shop between those events. So, just in this one portion of the schedule, your team will incur 9 days of expenses where no events are scheduled. And your team will receive all of $2500 "tow money" for that entire trip.

[chrismattlin]

I just had to be sure how much Marks traveled this past season, so I found the facts on the admirable @BillV99's website, http://www.sprintcarratings.com/Driv...x?DriverID=104

Looks as if he made a grand total of 4 trips where he "traveled" that was more than a day trip: Florida last winter, an early season trip to Texas/Missouri, and twice to Knoxville including The Nationals. Pretty limited. He made almost all of his money in Pennsylvania and states that adjoin it. So, not a ton of expenses related to travel.

[Kart#51]

Originally Posted by chrismattlin I just had to be sure how much Marks traveled this past season, so I found the facts on the admirable @BillV99's website, http://www.sprintcarratings.com/Driv...x?DriverID=104 Looks as if he made a grand total of 4 trips where he "traveled" that was more than a day trip: Florida last winter, an early season trip to Texas/Missouri, and twice to Knoxville including The Nationals. Pretty limited. He made almost all of his money in Pennsylvania and states that adjoin it. So, not a ton of expenses related to travel.

Yep! Thanks for validating my perspective with the data. This aligns with what I saw in 2022. For a professional sprint car team, Brent Marks didn't travel based on the way professional sprint car teams travel.

[dsc1600]

Originally Posted by chrismattlin Brent Marks did leave "home", but not for large stretches of time. The difference with The Outlaws are stretches like this: Thursday-Saturday, Sept. 1-3 – Skagit Speedway Monday, Sept. 5 – Grays Harbor Raceway Friday-Saturday, Sept. 9-10 – Silver Dollar Speedway Friday, Sept. 16 – Keller Auto Speedway Saturday, Sept. 17 – Placerville Speedway Your World of Outlaws team isn't going back to the shop between those events. So, just in this one portion of the schedule, your team will incur 9 days of expenses where no events are scheduled. And your team will receive all of $2500 "tow money" for that entire trip.

Plus $500-$1000 of bonus money per race payable only to WoO platinum members.

[dsc1600]

Originally Posted by chrismattlin I just had to be sure how much Marks traveled this past season, so I found the facts on the admirable @BillV99's website, http://www.sprintcarratings.com/Driv...x?DriverID=104 Looks as if he made a grand total of 4 trips where he "traveled" that was more than a day trip: Florida last winter, an early season trip to Texas/Missouri, and twice to Knoxville including The Nationals. Pretty limited. He made almost all of his money in Pennsylvania and states that adjoin it. So, not a ton of expenses related to travel.

Eldora is literally 8 hours from Central PA. "The states that adjoin it" lol

[chrismattlin]

Originally Posted by dsc1600 Plus $500-$1000 of bonus money per race payable only to WoO platinum members.

I included that.
"And your team will receive all of $2500 "tow money" for that entire trip."

Originally Posted by dsc1600 Eldora is literally 8 hours from Central PA. "The states that adjoin it" lol

It's a day trip.

i.e. You sleep in the toter home for a couple hours, at most.

That's why I didn't include The World Finals @ Charlotte since it's about the same as Eldora for them.