[Ray3]

Originally Posted by ernart3 There are badger motors that cost more than my national motor. It's just all racing is suffering right now. Remember we just had Indiana midget week followed by Illinois midget week a lot of guys aren't following series for points so they don't come when it's 100 degrees or if it's a track they don't like. Also have talked to some esslinger guys that aren't coming because of the new rpm rule. They feel it has hurt them.

The part about Badger engines costing more than purpose built engines is false. There is not a single new Badger engine that costs more than a new purpose built engine. Not a single one. Spreading false information like this does not help car counts one bit. Badger has a great thing going, and people are already buying cars, looking for cars, etc for next year. We don't need them being scared away by inaccurate information from someone who is not intimately involved in the series. For more information on the Badger Midgets I recommend calling the BMARA President Quinn McCabe. Anyone interested feel free to message me and I will send you his number.

[Jimi]

Just my 5 cents and open to criticism but I think alot to do is with the economy. The money isn't floating around like it used to.
You only get 10-14 nights from an engine before a rebuild so I guess alot of guys that only have one engine did the 2 midget weeks and are having a few weeks off.
It upsets me hearing any comments along the lines of K.K.M doing any bad for the sport because it is only doing good. They say it is making the sport too expensive but at the end of the day that's what midget racing is. People need to accept that. I have accepted that when I roll my $25'000 car on the track that the odds are not in my favor........ BUT I want to go midget racing at a national level against the best guys and it is what it is. You do the best you can, do how much racing you can afford for the year and be happy. Not criticize the costs of midget racing, the top dollar teams and divide the masses by trying to bring out new rules/classes etc.
I believe POWRi and USAC are doing a great job. What would help midget racing the most is having it televised on main stream t.v channels. And I am not talking MAV TV which are doing a great job but ESPN / FOX SPORTS. People that have never seen it that love motorsport would say "holy ****, this is racing." Get the masses following and with t.v time teams can access sponsorship easier. I can't secure any sponsorship mainly because the sport is not televised and businesses that hand over $10'000 plus these days want more than a sticker on a car for racing that gets no media attention. So what have I got to offer when I am asking for $50'000?
And when I say I race midget cars most people say "what are those?"............"they are open wheel cars that race on speedways"............."oh like those ones that have the wings on the top?" F#@* me, no joke, this is the start of every sponsorship proposal for me. I could maybe get a few truck rides because its televised but I don't want to go race in Nascar. If this could happen I believe it would do wonders for the sport. Convincing the fat cats in the corporate t.v world of midget racing wont be easy but if drifting and tractor pulling can get air time its got me beat.

[red70racer]

I hate making comments on these type post because it turns into a pi$sing contest
I live in the metro St. Louis area
Farmington for whatever reason has never drawn a full field of midgets
I really don't think the health of POWRi is as gloom as everyone makes it sound on here
Miserably hot weather stopped us from heading there.
I imagine when the POWRi group gets back to their usual haunts you'll have the car counts back to an acceptable number
Jeff Palazzolo

[SDHill89]

Originally Posted by red70racer I hate making comments on these type post because it turns into a pi$sing contest I live in the metro St. Louis area Farmington for whatever reason has never drawn a full field of midgets I really don't think the health of POWRi is as gloom as everyone makes it sound on here Miserably hot weather stopped us from heading there. I imagine when the POWRi group gets back to their usual haunts you'll have the car counts back to an acceptable number Jeff Palazzolo

Powri didn't have many cars at Farmington last year either and these same things were being said but it was all forgotten within a few weeks.

[grader47]

Belleville High Banks 39th midget nationals is expecting at least 40 cars according to the source that predicted 35 last year which was right on. $1000 to start and $500 for non-qualifiers. August 5 and 6 with racing the 2nd at Fairbury Nebraska and racing the 3rd at Beloit KS and on the 4th a Tim Dugger concert on the infield of the Belleville High Banks

[Indy1808]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Hint: You might want to look in the win column for the past two years for a clue......

You hit the nail on the head Don. Couldn't agree more.

[modirt19]

JMO but I think there is a lot more going on than just the heat for not having fans & cars at Powri events.
A lot has changed over the years and change is good as long as its positive & your growing but now it seems they're grasping for straws & its kind of on the downhill slide.
What I see from the fan perspective is less fans at the races, more classes of cars at your events, more track prep because the additional classes, nights that are lasting longer, fans are leaving before the midget feature because you run the support classes first, same fans that left weren't back to support the next race.
Now onto the number of cars-
I'm not so sure the Toyota is good for midget racing with its 50-$60,000 cost or rumor to rent the motor for $1000.00 night. Last time I looked Powri paid $200.00 for last place finish.
I agree a few years ago the Esslinger was winning quite a bit but more owner/drivers could afford used $15,000 or in some cases a new $25,000 motor. But the Gaerte & Fontana were still winning too.
What we have now seems to be the Toyota Midget Series.
There has been quite a few rumors floating around that the new RPM rule to increase the Toyotas(push rod motor) and reduce the Esslingers RPM(OHC) turns out to be $$$$.
Why the rule change?
It would be a shame if the rumor is true that sanctioning bodies were rewarded with $$$ to change their rules to benefit the Toyotas.
Kind a interesting and good to see a few of the Fontanas(push rod motor) have been pretty competitive lately since the new rule.
Sad issue is there are probably 20 + cars in the MO-IL, IN area sitting for the reasons mentioned above and a few more listed here-dislike of the sanction body owner, cost of creative pill draws & heat race line ups, preparing the track for one groove at the top for your high RPM motors, no tech on motors or ignition boxes not being checked, payout for finishing positions haven't changed in 5+yrs and continuance of top 10-12 finishing positions are Toyotas.
Racing has always been about the haves, some with a little of haves, & the have nots.
There is a much bigger divide in all aspects now than when Powri started. I read an article in either Flat Out or Sprint Car/Midget magazine interviewing the owner of the series and his comment was something to the extent of keeping grass roots racing alive.
Right now its on life support.
JMO

[chrismattlin]

I guess the above poster was at least partially right:

(just released from Powri)
Belleville, IL – After reviewing the data provided by on-track results from POWRi Illinois SPEED Week and races up until present day and comparing that data to information from the races earlier in the season, pre-current rev limiter rules, it has become apparent that the rev limit rules must be adjusted.

Effective immediately, POWRi will be going back to the previous rev limits allowed.

Gathered data has shown that with the two major types of engine designs (push rod engines and overhead cam engines), the rev limit rules have impacted the performance and slanted the table against the overhead cam engines. The present rules have not affected the push rod engines as much as the overhead cam engines because the push rod engines’ power curve is broader and comes in at much lower RPM range. On the other hand, the overhead cam engines have a narrower RPM range and work better in the top range.

“We thought this rule was a step in the right direction,” said Kenny Brown, owner of POWRi. “After reviewing the data, we realized it was not. The goal of implementing these rev limit rules was parity, to ultimately save money for car owners with increased time between engine maintenance cycles, and to welcome lower cost alternatives to current engine platforms. But it has become apparent over the last month of racing that the rev limit rules never actually accomplished this. We made a mistake heading in this direction and therefore, POWRi is going back to the previous rev limit rules.”

POWRi will continue to monitor all engine performance and will make necessary changes as needed.

[Charles Nungester]

My question in this age of technology, Do they actually dyno these engines before, during and after making up the limits or is it just a guestimate?

I mean today you can have real time performance mapping from the track, Most teams dont and shouldn't, But shouldn't a organization if its going to implement stuff? I really don't need a computer, I can hear it. A esslinger works best and is pulling harder in the high rpm band. A Toyota seems to come in much sooner and not lose much at the high end.

Much like the Two Cycle and Four Cycle motorcycle engines.
The Two Cycle needs to be at the upper band of the tach to perform best. The Four Cycle pulls at much lower RPM and doesn't lose much at the high end.

I also always wondered why stock block low cube v6s weren't allowed such as that old small 2.8 litre V6 ford used to put in it's capri's and mustangs, or the v6 cosworth vega? You'd have the power in a package working one third less hard.

Just thinking out loud on the last bit. But still wondering if there are actual data test before putting limits. And yes, I think getting 25 races before a rebuild is much better than maybe 15.

I always loved the innovation of the midgets, Heck at one time a outboard boat motor was the hot ticket. About five or six years ago some team from down under had a block and crank made to combine two hyabusa motorcycle engines to make a low cubic litre v8. I know it ran the chili bowl and I think they had two cars. Here's a link. Synergy Engine Midget http://www.synergypower.co.nz/index....-installation/

Was it written out of the rule books or never let in? They said the cost comparison for building was negligible compared to the top midget engines at the time. But that motor would be working half as hard and build right lasted longer.

Oh well, just more thoughts through the proverbial keyboard.
Chuck

[Daddyz]

Here are the car counts for the POWRi shows to date this year:

4/1 -- Port City -- 52
4/2 -- Port City -- 52
4/22 -- Jacksonville -- 31
4/23 -- Macon -- 37
4/29 -- Belleville -- 35
5/6 -- Valley -- 39
5/7 -- Wheatland -- 34
5/20 -- Brownstown -- 24
5/21 -- Macon -- 32
6/8 -- Belleville -- 32
6/9 -- Quincy -- 24
6/10 -- Jacksonville -- 30
6/11 -- Macon -- 32
6/12 -- Lincoln -- 27
6/24 -- Belleville -- 19
6/25 -- Farmington -- 12

Three of the four shows without a B main were at tracks that POWRi only rarely visits (Brownstown, Quincy, and Farmington). I fail to see how these car counts are indication of 'life support'. There's only been one rainout this year (Pevely), we're just coming off the Speedweeks shows, and coming up on the Pepsi Nationals.

I know there was some backlash with the RPM limits (they actually didn't 'raise' Toyota's RPM limit, or lower Esslingers- they matched the USAC RPM limits that have been the same for years). That being said, Kenny quickly reversed course when they saw that it wasn't having the effect they were hoping for.

Kenny and the whole POWRi organization have done more for midget racing over the past ten years than anyone, hands down. I just don't get all the doom and gloom posts.