[Rpracing1]

Who has time to try to figure out a format. Just trust that they have a system in place that tells everybody where to go and when. I just watch and enjoy the racing! See ya tomorrow night.

[cl124]

Originally Posted by Rpracing1 Who has time to try to figure out a format. Just trust that they have a system in place that tells everybody where to go and when. I just watch and enjoy the racing! See ya tomorrow night.

That's one way to approach it but I for one like to know the reaction of each race or pass as it happens not have to wait until they post the feature lineup to know if the fact my favorite driver finished 2nd in the first heat means he's starting on the pole or 20th or anywhere in between. Don't get me wrong, I love watching racing regardless I just feel this format has two major problems being that it is impossible for new fans or even some experienced fans to pick up on and understand and it also does not lend to the most competitive racing always when that next pass changes nothing for your night.

[Rpracing1]

Originally Posted by cl124 That's one way to approach it but I for one like to know the reaction of each race or pass as it happens not have to wait until they post the feature lineup to know if the fact my favorite driver finished 2nd in the first heat means he's starting on the pole or 20th or anywhere in between. Don't get me wrong, I love watching racing regardless I just feel this format has two major problems being that it is impossible for new fans or even some experienced fans to pick up on and understand and it also does not lend to the most competitive racing always when that next pass changes nothing for your night.

I'll drink a beer while your calculating dem points.

[Jonr]

It is interesting that you state the issues with qualifying because I have gone to many races that run on passing points. I can guarantee that a passing points system is even harder to understand. Try explaining to a person why a car that finishes second in the heat is in the B main, but the car that finished 3rd in the same heat transfers to the A main. Whenever I go to a passing points race, I always wait for the twitter feed to tell me the line up.

Also, I agree that a beer in hand helps it make more sense.

[Dick Monahan]

I recall that aaa/usac races in the 50s started everything straight up, and can't remember when the invert started. I've been thinking for years that there has to be a better format, but can't think of one.

[Kansasdirtfan]

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe The first three rows of the feature are made up of the fastest **SEEDED** 6 cars that transferred out of the heat races (in inverted position)... [/INDENT]

1. Thanks for your detailed explanation, but I’m more confused now than I already was. Maybe I’m just too old.
2. Explain “seeding.” This is the first time I’ve seen the word used in reference to USAC qualifying/lineups.

Also while I’m at it, can someone explain to me how a driver qualifies for a provisional starting spot?

Thanks.

[kinser]

I still like the old format personally. If you didn’t make the top ( whatever the number was) you ran a C-main before the heats and those cars tagged the tail of a heat. Back then you also got your qualifying spot back if you transferred through either your heat or B-main.

[sp6967]

i liked it when after everyone qualified the top 28 ran heats everyone else went home. the fastest 4 started 7th in the 4 heats, if you finished in the top 4 in heats you kept your qualifying time. if you ran b main and finished in the top six you kept your qualifying time.

[Sandy Lowe]

Originally Posted by Kansasdirtfan 1. Thanks for your detailed explanation, but I’m more confused now than I already was. Maybe I’m just too old. 2. Explain “seeding.” This is the first time I’ve seen the word used in reference to USAC qualifying/lineups. Also while I’m at it, can someone explain to me how a driver qualifies for a provisional starting spot? Thanks.

I used the word seeded. Some people use zipper. It's how you combine the two Qualifying Flights to figure the lineups after the heat races.

Thorson was the fastest overall in Qualifying Flight 2 so he becomes (for lineup purposes) quick time. The fastest in Qualifying Flight 1 becomes 2nd quick, 2nd fastest in Qualifying Flight 2 becomes 3rd quick, 2nd fastest in Qualifying Flight 1 becomes 4th quick, etc.

Their actual qualifying time does not matter for lineup purposes. It is the position in which they qualified in their qualifying flight.

It's all done as a way to level the playing field when the track changes dramatically during qualifications giving some cars a disadvantage.


-----


PROVISIONALS (from the USAC Rule Book):
https://usacracing.com/assets/files/...print_2021.pdf

1304 Provisional Starting Positions

The National Sprint Car Series will include a maximum of two (2) provisional starters in each feature event providing there are
eligible entrants who accept this option. (USAC/CRA events may utilize one (1) provisional)

The following conditions apply to provisional starters:

1. The top 20 in Entrant points are eligible for a maximum of four (4) provisional starts per season National and two (2) for USAC/CRA with the top Entrant in points, not qualifying for the feature, being the first recipient. If an eligible Entrant elects not to use a provisional, his/her position will be taken by the next highest in point standings. No guaranteed start money if provisional used.

2. First event for 2021: “Provisional” will be based on 2020 season ending top 20 car owner points.

3. All events up to May 1, will be based on previous season ending top 20 car owner points and the top 20 in current 2021 car owner points. The first (2) from either category will be eligible. 2021 points take precedence.

4. After May 1, current top 20 car owner points will be used for provisional.

5. Starting positions, point allocations and additional eligibility requirements can be found in 5.4C, 5.10 and 9.10C.

[kinser]

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe I used the word seeded. Some people use zipper. It's how you combine the two Qualifying Flights to figure the lineups after the heat races. Thorson was the fastest overall in Qualifying Flight 2 so he becomes (for lineup purposes) quick time. The fastest in Qualifying Flight 1 becomes 2nd quick, 2nd fastest in Qualifying Flight 2 becomes 3rd quick, 2nd fastest in Qualifying Flight 1 becomes 4th quick, etc. Their actual qualifying time does not matter for lineup purposes. It is the position in which they qualified in their qualifying flight. It's all done as a way to level the playing field when the track changes dramatically during qualifications giving some cars a disadvantage. ----- PROVISIONALS (from the USAC Rule Book): https://usacracing.com/assets/files/...print_2021.pdf 1304 Provisional Starting Positions The National Sprint Car Series will include a maximum of two (2) provisional starters in each feature event providing there are eligible entrants who accept this option. (USAC/CRA events may utilize one (1) provisional) The following conditions apply to provisional starters: 1. The top 20 in Entrant points are eligible for a maximum of four (4) provisional starts per season National and two (2) for USAC/CRA with the top Entrant in points, not qualifying for the feature, being the first recipient. If an eligible Entrant elects not to use a provisional, his/her position will be taken by the next highest in point standings. No guaranteed start money if provisional used. 2. First event for 2021: “Provisional” will be based on 2020 season ending top 20 car owner points. 3. All events up to May 1, will be based on previous season ending top 20 car owner points and the top 20 in current 2021 car owner points. The first (2) from either category will be eligible. 2021 points take precedence. 4. After May 1, current top 20 car owner points will be used for provisional. 5. Starting positions, point allocations and additional eligibility requirements can be found in 5.4C, 5.10 and 9.10C.

Sandy Lowe I have a question for you. If you were the 4th fastest qualifier overall and transferred through the B why would you have to start 12th ??