[chastaj]

I am a believer that weekly shows are more profitable than Sanctions. Take Bloomington for example this year are sanctioning less shows and doing more weekly deals. I do not know the cost of USAC or WOO or MSCS or MOWA but if it's say $10,000 that's 500 more butts you have to put in the seats at $20 to pay the added expense

[Sandy Lowe]

Originally Posted by chastaj I am a believer that weekly shows are more profitable than Sanctions. Take Bloomington for example this year are sanctioning less shows and doing more weekly deals. I do not know the cost of USAC or WOO or MSCS or MOWA but if it's say $10,000 that's 500 more butts you have to put in the seats at $20 to pay the added expense

Here's my opinion on Bloomington. Mike & Judy Miles spent a lot of years building up special events at Bloomington that were their own - races like the Sheldon Kinser Memorial and the annual fireworks show. They had a really nice purse for the Kinser and were strategic about the date they ran it so drivers & fans didn't have conflicts with other tracks/series. They put on an awesome fireworks display for the Fourth of July and the stands were always packed both nights.

Bloomington didn't need those events to be sanctioned. They already had all the top drivers competing at the Sheldon Kinser Memorial and a great fan following, and the crowd was almost standing room only for the fireworks show.

When the new promoters made those events sanctioned there wasn't much to gain for them. I think they realized that after the fact and went back to the way Mike and Judy used to do it, without a sanction.

[streetglider]

ScottyCbus I think you missed the point. If you only make it to Kokomo a few times a year for special shows. that's fine, I only make it to a lot of tracks for special shows. But Kokomo has always been a weekly track that people will come to. Same as for Ascot,Knoxville, Williams Grove etc. And road construction has no bearing on this point. Kokomo is arguably the best sprint car track in the country and one of the only to run on Sunday nights. To see it sit idle on beautiful Sunday nights is a bummer.
As for Charles....let me pose a question to you. IF a promoter is breaking even or barely making a profit, then how in the world can Kokomo Speedway offer FREE admission for the night before the Smackdown year after year? I think we can both agree that it is not out of the kindness of their hearts. Still the same amount of track prep, payroll and utilities! The OConners are great people but are also in business to make money. Bill Lipkey didn't die a poor man, and he only ran 2-3 special shows a year. Think about it.........

[Charles Nungester]

How do you compare three nights of smackdown with a bonus show for fans with to a regular show anyway? A 7k purse at `12 dollars a person vs a 23k purse at 25 a person? The track may make ten grand, fifteen or twenty grand on a weekly show. OK Fine. Split that three ways to the owners and take away the prep, food purchase and payroll. What's left?

Vs say a Sprintweek show at 3k people at average of 22 a head. I got it worked out that a USAC Purse, sanction fee etc cost 27 thousand roughly. Im not all that far off. But if you get the numbers of people and average gate of that amount including pits, teens and Sr's. Thats almost a 40k profit. not including concessions, souvineers, after race beer parties., The cost of prep, food purchase and payroll is roughly the same as your weekly show. Perhaps you have some additional cost in advertising and ticket sales. But clearly thats a lot more and what may keep them able to run a few weekly shows.

I don't know what the wed's show on smackdown is, Just a bonus for the fans to attend. Or a chance for people who have never been to see a show for free? Some of which will come back and spend $$ Some that wouldn't have been there without it and still spending some $$ at concessions and such.

Its not a USAC National Points race, Im not sure it carries the USAC purse ( I know they aren't racing for nothing)

It all comes back to what I thought as my original response. If it were worth while be open every week, Wouldn't they be? Are they only able to run weekly shows based on the success of the specials?

I don't know Kokomo's plans, buisness model, anything. I know they've tried adding THAT and for some reason it didn't pan out to continue. This is the second year of Gas City and who knows if that will continue?

I've heard there are some planned investments to kokomo, mostly fan related, but have nothing confirmed so maybe weekly shows are in it's future? Time will tell.

I think all the tracks save LPS are closed a few weekends and all have a alternative show or two.

My God, we got the best racing in my view in the world and tracks stands are less than three quarters full and sometimes less than half. Put a Monster Truck out there and it will sell out with SRO.............

[ShamrockRacin'48G]

Every decision has its pros and cons. Kokomo is a blue collar town and there are many families that will do a weekly show because they can afford it but probably wont come to Smackdown...but the down side to a sporadic schedule is these people start doing other things on their Sundays and soon attendance declines because people have lots of options and now Sundays arent the day the go to the track anymore...For decades K has put on some of the best weekly shows because they get cars and have little competition from other tracks on Sunday (plus its just a great place). Im not saying eliminate specials its just as in any business, a known cadence or routine helps grow the business. Ever wonder why bars are open always? Its because if they only opened occasionally they soon would suffer to the competition. Kokomo has great weekly racing that stands by itself and needs no sanction from week to week, and the past success from decades shows that it can in fact be successful.

[Nate]

I have no problem with the way Kokomo runs things. The O'Connors run the track as they see fit and they do a G-R-E-A-T job in doing so. I cannot remember when I've left that facility in recent memory thinking, "man, that sucked".

A month or so ago I went to a show there, it wasn't sanctioned by USAC, MSCS, WoO or anyone else. Just Kokomo running on a Sunday night. None of this "special" talk. The heats were fantastic and I already had my moneys worth right there. By 5 laps into the sprint car feature Sean Buckley (aka Jackslash) and I are looking at each other in disbelief at the racing we've just seen and we were only a handful of laps into a 25 lap feature. 3 wide all over the place and they would run like that for multiple laps. At the end KTJ pulled it out and only after he was up and over the cushion, bouncin' off the wall in the final laps battling with Shane Cottle. It was INSANE. Hell, even the stocks and hornets put on killer shows that night. If I remember correctly the hornets were racing so hard one even got upside down.

But for all those folks complaining about them not running weekly shows, where were you? You may have been there, you may have not. But the stands were not close to full. It was only 12 bucks to get in that night and if you had a kid 10 and under it was free (as always). It was the same story last Sunday when Josh Hodges raced the wheels off his sprint to get by Jerry Coons Jr. to get the win. Weather was great and again it was only $12. So where was everyone?

People are quick to complain about tracks not running as many shows as they use to. But why should they? When Gas City was racing every Friday night I used to get out of classes as an underclassman in college in Fort Wayne, scamper home, feed my dog, change clothes and hurry down. Sad part was even though there were 30 sprints plus mods and whatever else was running that night...the stands would be more than half empty. Weekly show, wasn't expensive. And if I'd have thought it was expensive I wouldn't have gone, and at the time I was a sophomore in college working a minimum wage job, broke as hell. But what money I did have I felt was more well spent at a track than getting liquored up at a watering hole. So if I could make that one work...we'll just leave it at that.

I'm not in everyone's shoes. I understand everyone's schedules are different, I understand that people have different incomes. I get it. But quit complaining. Please, it gets old.

And in all honesty I don't know why people are complaining that a track doesn't run weekly shows but can't afford to go to a "special" show. I mean lets do the math. Kokomo didn't run last night. You saved $12. So that should mean when Indiana Sprint Week comes to town next Saturday and you have an extra $12 bucks in the "race fund jar". Admission for that one is $25.

$12 you saved from no weekly show this Sunday + $12 you'd be spending if Indiana Sprint Week was a routine show = $24.

You're only down $1 and if you're that hard up for 4 extra quarters come see me prior to the race, I'll be in the RV lot somewhere drinking Keystone Light. I'll gladly give you a buck if you're that dedicated and just want to see good racing.

[ShamrockRacin'48G]

Originally Posted by Nate I have no problem with the way Kokomo runs things. The O'Connors run the track as they see fit and they do a G-R-E-A-T job in doing so. I cannot remember when I've left that facility in recent memory thinking, "man, that sucked". [COLOR="Black"][SIZE="1"]Try to stay focused Nate, there's not a single comment on this thread saying Kokomo sucks.... [/COLOR][/SIZE] A month or so ago I went to a show there, it wasn't sanctioned by USAC, MSCS, WoO or anyone else. Just Kokomo running on a Sunday night. None of this "special" talk. The heats were fantastic and I already had my moneys worth right there. By 5 laps into the sprint car feature Sean Buckley (aka Jackslash) and I are looking at each other in disbelief at the racing we've just seen and we were only a handful of laps into a 25 lap feature. 3 wide all over the place and they would run like that for multiple laps. At the end KTJ pulled it out and only after he was up and over the cushion, bouncin' off the wall in the final laps battling with Shane Cottle. It was INSANE. Hell, even the stocks and hornets put on killer shows that night. If I remember correctly the hornets were racing so hard one even got upside down. Great, so you saw a great weekly show at Kokomo, glad you and Buckley found us, welcome to the party... Ive seen many, thats why I want more weekly racing and hate to see the track sit idle on Sundays...I've seen Bob Kinser beat Steve on Sundays years ago, I've seen Ed Angle, Van Gurley, Barrel Fisher, Terry Shepard, Tony Elliott and DD running as teens, Derek Davidson, I've seen Ricky Hood win 11 features in a summer, heck, I've even seen John Mapes bounce it off the grainery, I've seen Jeff Walker and Tom Chalk race sprints there, I watched Phil Poor as a week to week mechanic helping teams learn set ups, I watched Butler learn to drive there, watched as Alan Barr won features carrying the LF all the way, I've sat thru feature delays under Lipkey as the lights exploded routinely and rained glass upon the track......ever hear of any of these guys?....... So I feel I have every right to have an opinion about Kokomo..... But for all those folks complaining about them not running weekly shows, where were you? You may have been there, you may have not. But the stands were not close to full. It was only 12 bucks to get in that night and if you had a kid 10 and under it was free (as always). It was the same story last Sunday when Josh Hodges raced the wheels off his sprint to get by Jerry Coons Jr. to get the win. Weather was great and again it was only $12. So where was everyone? You will never have a standing room only crowd week to week, but again this track does have plenty of local support and you have no idea how many it takes break even or make a profit for that matter.... People are quick to complain about tracks not running as many shows as they use to. But why should they? When Gas City was racing every Friday night I used to get out of classes as an underclassman in college in Fort Wayne, scamper home, feed my dog, change clothes and hurry down. Sad part was even though there were 30 sprints plus mods and whatever else was running that night...the stands would be more than half empty. Weekly show, wasn't expensive. And if I'd have thought it was expensive I wouldn't have gone, and at the time I was a sophomore in college working a minimum wage job, broke as hell. But what money I did have I felt was more well spent at a track than getting liquored up at a watering hole. So if I could make that one work...we'll just leave it at that. Congrats on being a good fan, when I was in college I was racing in the summer, pouring every penny and oz of energy into it, dragging an open trailer across Indiana, getting home at 3am to get to work by 8am....you probably saw me running a few features at Gas City about that time....so your 12 dollar contribution may have been awesome to you, but there are folks out there with much more skin in the game...but thats not what this post is about. I'm not in everyone's shoes. I understand everyone's schedules are different, I understand that people have different incomes. I get it. But quit complaining. Please, it gets old. And in all honesty I don't know why people are complaining that a track doesn't run weekly shows but can't afford to go to a "special" show. I mean lets do the math. Kokomo didn't run last night. You saved $12. So that should mean when Indiana Sprint Week comes to town next Saturday and you have an extra $12 bucks in the "race fund jar". Admission for that one is $25. I go to all of them...this aint about me. $12 you saved from no weekly show this Sunday + $12 you'd be spending if Indiana Sprint Week was a routine show = $24. You're only down $1 and if you're that hard up for 4 extra quarters come see me prior to the race, I'll be in the RV lot somewhere drinking Keystone Light. I'll gladly give you a buck if you're that dedicated and just want to see good racing.

I dont need your dollar...in fact I bet I've given more money to racers than you've spent at race tracks over the years...ever give somebody a hundred bucks after they cut a tire in the feature? Try it sometime, it is soo liberating....I appreciate your defense of Kokomo, but I still say Id like to see regular Sunday shows in addition to specials...
$4 you saved from buying Keystones plus $4 you saved by sitting at home and you could buy yourself a couple more racing stickers....If your that hard up for a beer come to the backstretch and we will give you a real beer AND a history lesson.

[Nate]

Shamrock, In some aspects I do agree with you, others I do not.

First of all, I was not implying that anyone said the racing sucked just making an observation that 95% of the time you go to Kokomo, you're going to see a good show and that is how I chose to word it.

Yes, I'm younger but it's not like I just went there for the first time. My first memory of going there was in the 90s, not going to apologize for the fact I'm young and can't remember Rich Vogler racing or wasn't born soon enough to see Bob Kinser win track championships. However, don't think that because I'm younger than yourself that I'm ignorant to anything racing related prior to the 2000s.

Yes, you're correct, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm pointing out the fact that so many complain without thinking.

Yes a weekly show will almost certainly never be standing room only. I'm asking where was everyone on these past regular Sunday night shows that were unsanctioned. The stands weren't even close to half full. A cheap, regular Sunday night show is what fans here are asking for, the O'Connors have given them that. Yet there aren't a lot of fans showing up. You're right there is a lot of local support but to make it worth while for the track to keep doing it, there has to be more. And as you pointed out, it takes a lot to break even or even make a profit. I do have a little insight because my family promoted and ran a track for years. It's hard work to run a smooth, timely show whether your're running sprints or go karts and it costs a lot of money. People don't take into account the money and logistics involved, not saying that's you, but there are plenty out there that turn a blind eye to it.

You don't need to talk to me about how expensive racing is, also raced in my younger years and grew up in a racing family. But as you said, not what this post is about, just letting you know I'm not ignorant to how deep in the wallet you have to dig to go racing.

Also, I appreciate the offer for the beer but don't knock my Keystone, been drinking it for years and will continue doing so because its what I prefer. The Budweiser products sold at the track just don't do it for me but I'll gladly sit and talk racing with you or anyone else anytime there aren't cars on the track.

[ShamrockRacin'48G]

Nice reply Nate-I only knocked your Keystones because you implied you would give me a dollar if I was hard up--in the end we both want mostly the same thing-that being a healthy supply of dirt racing in Indiana...

[Nate]

Originally Posted by ShamrockRacin'48G Nice reply Nate-I only knocked your Keystones because you implied you would give me a dollar if I was hard up--in the end we both want mostly the same thing-that being a healthy supply of dirt racing in Indiana...

Wasn't talking to you individually, just saying that in general if anyone was that hard up for a buck and sincerely wanted to watch the Indiana Sprint Week show, I'd gladly give them one.