I also have a South Bend Lathe. The O'Brien brothers were the Henry Ford's of the lathe business,in making the most fundamental of all machine tools, the lathe.


There are more than one way to skin a cat,but you can hack away on things very crudely, or use a lathe and mill,and make nice parts.

I think back to my younger days in Maine working on friends Figure 8 cars that were built very crude,and wonder how we ever got those cars built without a Lathe and mill. Life would have been much easier if we had them at our disposal back then.

This was not intended to be a discussion about Ti bolts vs. grade or who has a lathe or who does not. I was suppose to be about gathering "DATA" on engines rules such as to:

2.5 max or 2.4 max
after market parts vs. stock
cost of engine configurations
how to kept cost to a min. vs allowing more $$$ to be spent
Stock components vs stock mix and match


unlike other racing organizations I was giving the racer the opportunity to have a voice but it seems that I hear a great verse of a song in my head:

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way

National midgets should be allowed to compete (maybe with a spec RR tire or something). The national midgets make up 95% of the midget population already, so they would help car counts shoot through the roof. It's working great for Montpelier...

Wayne

Thank you>>>I didn't think you was ever going to bring it up? The way I see things and keep in mind I am a little over the hill and my brain and some of my other body parts don't work as good as they once did, My love of the sport has never waned one little bit.

Racing should be about using your intelligence to build a better mouse trap and not your ability to empty your pocket book faster than the other guy. Racing should be about making things better and more efficient>>>improving the breed so to speak.

I hate rules just for the sake of filling up rule books and making racers resort to thinking of ways to skirt the limits, (a fun part of racing).

After reading the rules several time and sleeping on them a few times during the day their would be only 2 rules that intrest me.

1. No cockpit adjustable shocks. I bought into the concept at the inception of the Idea. First it was just the left rear shock and the ability to adjust rebound to meet track changing conditions. A bit pricy back then but we still race with the same shock, so if I get my accountant to depreciate them out over 10 years that brings the cost down to $50.00 a season. In the hands of a capable driver they can sure save you from yourself on occasions. When they first appeared Tony Stewart was driving for my buddy in Indy. Tony was young and full of knowledge and would invariably come in with the shocks adjusted the wrong way. Ralph pulled the pin out of the adjuster cable and let his young driver turn the knob as much as he wanted to.

Many times things like rebuild-able shocks are a wise investment over the cheaper variety and by only requiring one shock to take the place of 4 or 5 shocks we also save money there.

2. Engine displacement and after market parts for the internals?

A. I like the displacement of 2500cc's over 2400 cc's. Why well when we set it a 2400 cc's we are using the favorite motor at the time the Ecotec as a base line. Most engines are based on 1000cc> 1500cc>2000cc>and 2500cc. I don't know why but they do. We are talking about a difference of 100 cc's or 6 cubic inches about the size of a good weed eater or mo-ped. For this extra 6 cubic inches you make motors like the new Ford Mazda duratec>Nisson and Toyota and a bunch of other motors legal to race. There might be some winners in these other engines but we wont know unless we give them a chance. This is from the mouth of an experimenter.

You mention porting for the little Focus motor they need it to be competitive but this is an added expense for the non DIY racer. Right now Ford has a 2500cc motor in the system maybe it would be more competitive than the little 2000cc version with the porting option.

We noted where Esslinger the Ford 4 banger specialist have expressed interest in the D II class. They want to take a little Focus and with just a few slight of hand tricks like Stroking the crank and boring the block make a competitive Focus. There went the neighborhood.

For that extra 6 cubic inches why not give up Rods and pistons? Allowing decking for compression but take that set of $1000.00 pistons and $1000.00 rods off of the table. You can still twist her but the internals will limit for how long you twist her. Cam shafts and valve springs I guess would be OK but stock valves should stay. Lets keep tec as simple and objective as possible as we can with a bore scope.

Whenever after market machine work or parts enter into the equation the cost starts to take off like a rocket ship.

I think there is a place for the after market people. They need to make motor plates that accommodate a starter. They need to make headers and mufflers (maybe even a hone we can hone the inside of the pipe for that extra surge of power.) They need to make bolt on fuel injection both Mechanical for the purist and Electronic for us better informed and lazy racers. There is even a need for air cleaners. But keep them out of the insides of the motor, or we will be talking about sy\ky rocketing cost of Division II racing. On part mixing let them do it stock looks stock and you don't need part numbers stamped on them to be sure they are legal. How else could Bobby and I run our YamaSaki motors???

Next>>>>>looking a head motors don't stay in the system for 50 years anymore, instead the salvage people simply melt them down to their elements and make newer and more efficient motors. The 1000cc forced induction motors are on the horizon we need to start researching them and figure how they will enter into our equation. Then we go to Electric cars and Batteries all we have to do is ask Casey Shuman about them Beasts.

Honest Dad himself

DaD, no strictly dirt down here in Florida. Sorry if i implied not concerned about safety, i was referring to my thought process and why i choose to do the things i do...

Wayne,
The original post implied engine packages and other things...So that opened the door up for other conversations..

All the chatter is useful information that could be absorbed into decisions that are being made as tou can see there are multiple thought processes of racers and crew chiefs in the way tjey see the light of different topics..

I understand the motive to make all series an equal rule book and thats all good It doesnt matter if you allow Ti or not, it just makes people like me spend money elsewhere to see the car go fast, so if it is to make it affordable to not allow Ti, then your wrong. It will be spent elsewhere. We are racers at heart and want to as fast as we can.

Just like tires....by mandating tires only henders the choices but your still going to buy them. For instance you mandate rr tO SP2 only, at our tracks you will be biying a tire every race, by allowing options you save my sp2 to allow me to run sp3
I live to tace another week without buying a tire..lol

I know this is not your intention to get into all this, so im done...ill send you an email..

Buhr

The reason for the pavement question is most dirt racers race off of the blocks, Pavement racers race off of the scales. We take our basic set up off of the block with maybe 1/2 turn added to the right rear for a heavy track and adjust as we go. Placing weights all the way around the car is just not done up here on dirt. If you haven't already a guy named Steve Smith and Jimmy Sills got together and wrote a book and Jimmy did a video that is very informative and gives a lot of advice on Midget set up. Also a must read for Midget racers. even better than staying at the Holiday Inn but not quite as good as staying at the La Quinta Inns.

Honest Dad himself

Ronnie we have covered the Ti issue with an addmen that will be in the rules for 2016-18

2-6-15 Section 2.3e NO TITANIUM ALLOWED PERIOD other then lower jackshaft in rearend...Update: Titanium bolts allowed EXCEPT when rotating such as but not limited to wheels, hubs,axles

Rickey

At this point in time National Midgets do not compete well with one another. There is one engine out there built with tons of un-obtaneium. It is not readily available to the standard wealthy Midget racer and would probably cause several of these guys to spin off a few extra racers to the D II Division. I would love to see the old VW's, Sesco's, Gurdy's, and Pontiac's be allowed to race also but even they bring fear to the hearts of many racers. However when one of these guys come up with a $6000.00 motor repair I think they just might switch over and put their old motor in their living room. If 95% of the Midgets out there are National Midgets right now that is great>>>BUT I am hoping for a 10 fold increase in the Midget Population.

I am still hoping for a skinny Div II spec tire, I think that would really help out both in fairness and making for better future drivers.

Honest Dad himself

If were going to fantasize about ridiculous new rules (skinny spec tires), maybe we should consider swapping the right rear over to the left side and going backwards on the track too?

Smokin

In open wheel race cars generally when you are smoking your rear tires you are probably losing sight of the racers out in front. It is all about being in control of your race car.

Honest Dad himself