king of the tqs meeting

TQ29m · 11/20/14, 3:08 PM

I might be, is it a 600 case, or 750? Was anything said about the weight for next season, I've heard 2 different numbers. Bob

badcoupe · 11/20/14, 9:14 PM

No one mentioned weight. I've heard so many conflicting things. It used to be 625 which my car is under if empty on fuel. Then I've been told 850 car and driver. The case is a 600 motor is all assembled just need to come up with a way to run a oil pump

TQ29m · 11/20/14, 10:34 PM

Well, that's another one, I heard 800 C/D. Maybe Terry will let us all know. I can do your oil pump drive, you going to run carbs or injection? Lmk, I'll catch you on a PM. Bob

TQ29m · 11/21/14, 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badcoupe

That's always been the problem. Years ago some guys built a car with 600 kaw but they couldn't get enough gear on the small tracks. Granted that was before 10" wheels were available which help a bunch. I agree with the ftz guys on the fact that some of the newer motors have so short of a stroke that they don't work well in minis etc. because the power range is too high for what we do

Getting a low enough gear hasn't really been a problem for me, there are parts out there available that will get you there, and it won't take a wad of money to buy them either! Bob

DAD · 11/22/14, 10:29 AM

A modern 4 valve over-square 600cc motorcycle motor runs well between 14000 to 15000 rpms. Those are the ones that are in production today. I understand that an 836 Honda is happy between 11000 to 11500 rpms.

Using Montpelier Indiana as an example, one of the larger tracks you guys run on. Assuming that a good gear for the Honda would be about "9.5 to 0ne" up there. To gear a 600cc motor to run at optimum power (This is with a stock motor with minimal modifications, exhaust, Methanol and mapping the ECM) would require a gear of at least 12 to One, assuming a 72" right rear tire. Like I said this is one of your larger tracks that you race on. I understand that the midget rear end is not capable any lower gear that about "11.33 to One". To me the smaller sidewinder tire would not be a good option because of the larger and rougher tracks that you run on as compared to the sidewinders, and they look stupid too.

A good 600cc motor produces about 140 horsepower stock, they would make a great fit for a TQ, but because the rules as written, they are prohibited it from working at peak efficiency. The old Honda's are getting scarce but these motors are available for around $2000.00 each all day long. They are the reason for the popularity of both 600cc sidewinders and 1000cc Midgets. Why would a guy want to put $2000.00 in rods and pistons and another $1000.00 in cams and valves then another $3500.00 in fuel injection to build a new Honda, when he could go to EBAY and buy a motor that would out run what he had created for just $2000.00. And when that one blows up which it will after 2 or 3 seasons it is time to upgrade to the newest thing out there.

Honest Dad himself

#1Brad Kuhn Fan · 11/22/14, 11:23 AM

Dad, if you want a 600c motor. Go buy a micro or mini. If you want a tq motor.. 836.. Then run a damn tq. That's what's wrong with tq racing now.. You got to many people trying to change tq racing and in result you have a lot of tqs sitting in the shop collecting dust.

Ken Bonnema · 11/22/14, 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1Brad Kuhn Fan

Dad, if you want a 600c motor. Go buy a micro or mini. If you want a tq motor.. 836.. Then run a damn tq. That's what's wrong with tq racing now.. You got to many people trying to change tq racing and in result you have a lot of tqs sitting in the shop collecting dust.

Thank YOU Devin. You guys are making my point for me and PLEASE don't anyone take this personally it is in NO WAY meant as such. BADCOUPE has a Motor sitting that he wants to put in one. It has a custom crank and rods that he spent a great deal of money on. Meanwhile, DAD thinks we should go to full Midgets. First off, these are T.Q. or Three Quarter Midgets, not underpowered full Midgets. Cost?? Ya gotta buy a Midget Kit 'cause the front axle is wider and the pick up points are different so it better have the radius/tie/steering rods or you get to buy those too. Driveline and Tube won't work, the're too short. You need a CUSTOM Motorplate 'cause no one puts 750 Hondas in full Midgets. Do your Birdcages work with the new chassis?? Better hope so or.....$$$$. In NO WAY does that Idea save Money. Another guy is working on a High Velocity Manifold. Great, and if it adds significant H.P. and/or Torque everybody's gotta get one or not be competitive. I have been hearing since the late 90's about 750's not being available. Right now there is a plug and play 750 for sale on IOW for $6500.00. It's even injected, just bolt in and go. Here are 3 cars for sale on the West Coast

http://www.wstqmidgets.com/Classified.html
The 66 car is just plain fast. $7500.00 with spares. SMOKIN' Deal. The 11 car might be my old one as it's a Hart/Hart. Motor needs fresh job for $4500.00. Sign me up!! The Stewart for $3500 is a nice starter car. I know ya gotta get 'em out here but Chili Bowl's comin' so that should be pretty cheap. The problem with our sport is that no one will say......NO. Again, you guys have around 50 T.Q.'s running on any given weekend out here. The class doesn't seem broke so...........

badcoupe · 11/22/14, 2:50 PM

Ken you're right we have awesome car counts. Even if I go to a newer style motor I will never do so without a Honda ready to go. When I first started on the zuki I have way back when I had make the adapter so it bolts directly in where the Honda was, didn't have to change anything. The thing that makes me love the tqs is that it's as close to traditional midget racing as there is. Room to try different things, no two are exactly alike. Granted you need access to a machine shop and or bender to maintain one as a lot of the parts aren't readily available

sday27 · 11/22/14, 9:44 PM

what about putting them back on pavement , setup a tire package like the stars. midgets. i think the guys in florida run a spec. tire too , they also run stock 4 valve 750 engine. been trying to get the wife to move down ,i would like run with them, and enjoy the warmer winters i have seen enough snow.

badcoupe · 11/23/14, 2:50 AM

I wish we would go to some pavement, my car is a drinan that was built just for the pavement, it came from Florida. We got to run it at mt lawn the summer I bought it and it was unbelievably fast until the POS acro rearend locked up. Florida runs the old honda but theyre allowed 900 cc or they run the newer motors but on I believe the 02 and newer 600's must be bone stock no power commander etc.

11/20/14, 3:08 PM	#31 Re: king of the tqs meeting
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,196	I might be, is it a 600 case, or 750? Was anything said about the weight for next season, I've heard 2 different numbers. Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

11/20/14, 10:34 PM	#33
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,196	Well, that's another one, I heard 800 C/D. Maybe Terry will let us all know. I can do your oil pump drive, you going to run carbs or injection? Lmk, I'll catch you on a PM. Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

11/22/14, 10:29 AM	#35 Re: king of the tqs meeting
DAD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,955	A modern 4 valve over-square 600cc motorcycle motor runs well between 14000 to 15000 rpms. Those are the ones that are in production today. I understand that an 836 Honda is happy between 11000 to 11500 rpms. Using Montpelier Indiana as an example, one of the larger tracks you guys run on. Assuming that a good gear for the Honda would be about "9.5 to 0ne" up there. To gear a 600cc motor to run at optimum power (This is with a stock motor with minimal modifications, exhaust, Methanol and mapping the ECM) would require a gear of at least 12 to One, assuming a 72" right rear tire. Like I said this is one of your larger tracks that you race on. I understand that the midget rear end is not capable any lower gear that about "11.33 to One". To me the smaller sidewinder tire would not be a good option because of the larger and rougher tracks that you run on as compared to the sidewinders, and they look stupid too. A good 600cc motor produces about 140 horsepower stock, they would make a great fit for a TQ, but because the rules as written, they are prohibited it from working at peak efficiency. The old Honda's are getting scarce but these motors are available for around $2000.00 each all day long. They are the reason for the popularity of both 600cc sidewinders and 1000cc Midgets. Why would a guy want to put $2000.00 in rods and pistons and another $1000.00 in cams and valves then another $3500.00 in fuel injection to build a new Honda, when he could go to EBAY and buy a motor that would out run what he had created for just $2000.00. And when that one blows up which it will after 2 or 3 seasons it is time to upgrade to the newest thing out there. Honest Dad himself _________________________________________________ Last edited by DAD; 11/22/14 at 10:39 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11/20/14, 9:14 PM	#32
badcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 946	No one mentioned weight. I've heard so many conflicting things. It used to be 625 which my car is under if empty on fuel. Then I've been told 850 car and driver. The case is a 600 motor is all assembled just need to come up with a way to run a oil pump

11/23/14, 2:50 AM	#40 Re: king of the tqs meeting
badcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 946	I wish we would go to some pavement, my car is a drinan that was built just for the pavement, it came from Florida. We got to run it at mt lawn the summer I bought it and it was unbelievably fast until the POS acro rearend locked up. Florida runs the old honda but theyre allowed 900 cc or they run the newer motors but on I believe the 02 and newer 600's must be bone stock no power commander etc.