[24midgets]

Sorry if u thought I was attacking u but the Guy was not running for points or money. But see how competitive he would be with a sealed motor. Add it. Got shot down before any testing could be done. I don't want some motor that makes it where u have to have one are u have no chance to win. I just think it would open up to more cars and better racing. But it will never change so I don't know why we're even talking about it,.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by thebus79h I guess I don't understand... Everybody wants TQ's to thrive... but yet... no-one will listen to people that feel there needs to be change to the rules. If you think a Yamaha R1 wouldn't spin a quickchange, you are mistaken. that motor is a monster, and would do awesome in these little cars. I truthfully believe the problem isn't the owners, the problem is the clubs that don't want to listen, and have people that build engines on the board, running the show, and helping out. They don't know anything else, and aren't willing to change. People want to talk about the difference between TQ's and mini/micro sprints amazes me as well. TQ races can be good, but the last few that I've seen (yes, this year), were close races just due to the format, and the style of track... one groove... on the bottom... in a freight train. If someone is happy going to the track and finishing 5th, that's fine, I'm happy for you, but finishing 5th every week sucks to me, and I wouldn't like it one bit. Nobody will own up to the fact that the reason people are going to mini's and micros is simple, there are more places to race, and the cars are readily available. Go look around on message boards and see how many cars are for sale in each class. You can barely find a TQ for sale anywhere, but you can find a micro/mini sprint anywhere, most built on a jig in a shop somewhere by a reputable builder, with a motor from a reputable builder in it as well, and made in the last decade. It's not horrible that you can still run an old car, and win races, but there isn't anywhere I can call just to order axles, or get some radius rods made, without them being custom built. That's not what people do now-a-days. That part of racing has come and gone, and you aren't going to gain any people doing it that way. It's great all the cars look different, but the difference between a good TQ, and a bad TQ is astounding, where you go to a mini/micro sprint track, the bad micros/minis, still are pretty good stuff. You cannot fault someone for spending money on a racecar to make it better, but if the rules don't allow for that, something is wrong. I would LOVE to see an outlaw TQ organization started that was 48 inches center to center on the rear tires, and put anything from 1000cc to 1200cc motors in the cars, and make them direct drive. Put a few basic rules on there, measure em, CC em, and go race the damn things and get the ******** out of the sport. The people that have been running the series are the ones that have been involved forever, and haven't looked at the future. the 600cc micro sprints have been around forever, and it took a while for them to grow, and everybody was pissed off because of the expense of them, well once they all got their heads out their asses and realized it was much cheaper, and you were going to build car count, everybody jumped ship. Times change, and the motors from 10 years ago, you can't be competitive with anymore, but that's part of racing. We are willing to improve lots of things, but the most important part of the whole damn car nobody wants to touch.

Thanks for your opinion, but it isn't necessary, or wanted, as I've said before, we can handle this by ourselves, you don't have a dog in the fight, and I don't have one in your's. Thanks! Boband the smilie don't mean anything, it just adds color!

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Thanks for your opinion, but it isn't necessary, or wanted, as I've said before, we can handle this by ourselves, you don't have a dog in the fight, and I don't have one in your's. Thanks! Boband the smilie don't mean anything, it just adds color!

I don't have a dog in the fight? Before motor troubles we were leading rookie points in MTQRL. Odd.

Again, the closed minds of the TQ world that think everything is perfect, and nothing else matters.

[STP]

Originally Posted by 24midgets Sorry if u thought I was attacking u but the Guy was not running for points or money. But see how competitive he would be with a sealed motor. Add it. Got shot down before any testing could be done. I don't want some motor that makes it where u have to have one are u have no chance to win. I just think it would open up to more cars and better racing. But it will never change so I don't know why we're even talking about it,. Posted via Mobile Device

He wasn't running for points but other drivers were. I accept the responsibility of that error. Now we have a very race knowledgeable person in charge, who will take things forward. Please don't misunderstand, just because it's not done at our races that testing and research isn't being done. My understanding is that parts are the biggest expense that the racers have and that engines are hard to get. How many would like to see a sealed or stock engine? Or an engine that would require fewer aftermarket parts? We would love to hear the thoughts of racers on this and ideas on how to get there.

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by thebus79h I don't have a dog in the fight? Before motor troubles we were leading rookie points in MTQRL. Odd. Again, the closed minds of the TQ world that think everything is perfect, and nothing else matters.

No Billy, as I have found over the years, nothing is perfect, if you want to be the messenger, you tell em next year, everyone has to have an R1 in front of their QC! I don't know of any closed minds, but I do know bomb shells dropped too soon, can be rather a bad deal. I'd like to try one myself, but that would not go over real good, I'm sure. Who was the rookie? Bob!

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by TQ29m No Billy, as I have found over the years, nothing is perfect, if you want to be the messenger, you tell em next year, everyone has to have an R1 in front of their QC! I don't know of any closed minds, but I do know bomb shells dropped too soon, can be rather a bad deal. I'd like to try one myself, but that would not go over real good, I'm sure. Who was the rookie? Bob!

I'm not saying for one minute, and have never stated everybody had to have the same engine. Spec series don't work. But until someone opens up the rules, then nobody is going to even try it because of the expense of something that may not be allowed to run.

Just like the 600's that I normally run around with, the rule is 640cc max, and that's about it. Some people run the Kawasaki 636, because it's close to the max on cc's, but many run a stock bore R6. If someone wants to build up a old Honda F3 six ways to Sunday, and spend a half a million on it, they should be allowed to do so. If you set the rule at 1000cc maximum, you're going to have a TON of stock bore 1000cc motors at your disposal, because you don't need all the aftermarket parts for them.

I really like TQ's, I like the history, and I like the way they are different than the stuff I normally run. I spent two summers bashing brains in trying to get motors to stay together and run, and this summer it started off great, and just has gone downhill from there. I don't know what the answer is, but someone has to step up to the plate and take those risks.

Forgot to say who the driver was, Jake Moore from Muncie was driving.

[OpenwheelRob]

Originally Posted by thebus79h If someone is happy going to the track and finishing 5th, that's fine, I'm happy for you, but finishing 5th every week sucks to me, and I wouldn't like it one bit.

<---Finished 5th and is pretty happy. Perhaps you should jump in one and show us how to win every week. You really think it's just the motors? Your leaving out one of the biggest parts, The Driver, and those guys typically in that top 5(excluding this week) are pretty freakin good.

[racer65]

Just something my dad, brother, and i have talked about a 1000cc snow mobile engine. Its sealed and no trans to worry about cutting just adapt right to the crank, switch it to alky and go racing. I dont know what others opinion is but you could run that stock and you probably wouldnt get much out of it by building it up and dumping money into it. Would something like that ever work? thats just what we would like to see thanking it would make the motors cheaper and easier.

Will Wilson

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by STP He wasn't running for points but other drivers were. I accept the responsibility of that error. Now we have a very race knowledgeable person in charge, who will take things forward. Please don't misunderstand, just because it's not done at our races that testing and research isn't being done. My understanding is that parts are the biggest expense that the racers have and that engines are hard to get. How many would like to see a sealed or stock engine? Or an engine that would require fewer aftermarket parts? We would love to hear the thoughts of racers on this and ideas on how to get there.

Jennifer, I'll open the subject of engines, but first, I'd like to approach the chassis. Having built several of them, and been around them for at least 20 years, my first thought is they aren't built out of large enough tube, to be safe, with any bigger engines than what we currently run, my feeling is they need to be constructed out of the same size tube, full midgets are. As far as engine rules, I find what we have, a very workable situation, knowing that if the Honda is opened up, it will just add more expense to keeping one of them going, and if the twin cam engines are allowed any more cc's, unless they are allowed to go to 750cc's, that too, will be expensive. I absolutley can't convince anyone, the the 600/700cc twin cam engines are tons cheaper than the Honda, other than the few that have built them themselves, and I most certainly don't want to see a spec engine of any kind, that's the fun part of the TQ, being able to "create" something yourself, and race it. I researched a long time, before I settled on the engine I run, it was first introduced in 1993, and is still in production today, it is what Yamaha called the Thundercat, and it is almost bullet proof, and can be bought with low miles on it, for around $600.00, figure another grand for the conversion parts, and all you have in it, is the cost of a set of rods, for a Honda, and it will run, and run, and run. I feel a lot of consideration needs to go into any changes that might be made, and keep in mind, this isn't a money game, most of these guys aren't even close to being rich, so consider the customer also. I would be glad to show anyone the Thundercat engine, and the parts needed to exchange it for the Honda. Bob

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

Originally Posted by racer65 Just something my dad, brother, and i have talked about a 1000cc snow mobile engine. Its sealed and no trans to worry about cutting just adapt right to the crank, switch it to alky and go racing. I dont know what others opinion is but you could run that stock and you probably wouldnt get much out of it by building it up and dumping money into it. Would something like that ever work? thats just what we would like to see thanking it would make the motors cheaper and easier. Will Wilson

Will, I also did some research on the snowmobile engine, and that engine, in 4 stroke form, doesn't really have much in the way of guts, to be honest, they rely on the variable drive clutch, for their speed, rather than RPM, to be honest, my feeling is they would be heavy, and slow. Bob

[STP]

I remember talking to you and your Dad about the snowmobile and the Harley Davidson engines a few years ago. I don't know of any one who has tried it yet. It would be really cool if someone could put a Harley engine in a TQ to honor Russ Hankins at the Rushville race though.

Originally Posted by racer65 Just something my dad, brother, and i have talked about a 1000cc snow mobile engine. Its sealed and no trans to worry about cutting just adapt right to the crank, switch it to alky and go racing. I dont know what others opinion is but you could run that stock and you probably wouldnt get much out of it by building it up and dumping money into it. Would something like that ever work? thats just what we would like to see thanking it would make the motors cheaper and easier. Will Wilson

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 PM ----------

I do like your ideas, Bob, and have mentioned them to one of the guys who builds small engines. I know different owners prefer different engines. But there has to be a better way. What do you think of the Beast chassis? They seem very solid to me. We're all for safety first and keeping the cost down second. One of the reasons I love the TQs so much is that they are a working man's race car. TQs are unique. They're like Jamaica, once you go, you know.

[QUOTE=TQ29m;242544]Jennifer, I'll open the subject of engines, but first, I'd like to approach the chassis. Having built several of them, and been around them for at least 20 years, my first thought is they aren't built out of large enough tube, to be safe, with any bigger engines than what we currently run, my feeling is they need to be constructed out of the same size tube, full midgets are. As far as engine rules, I find what we have, a very workable situation, knowing that if the Honda is opened up, it will just add more expense to keeping one of them going, and if the twin cam engines are allowed any more cc's, unless they are allowed to go to 750cc's, that too, will be expensive. I absolutley can't convince anyone, the the 600/700cc twin cam engines are tons cheaper than the Honda, other than the few that have built them themselves, and I most certainly don't want to see a spec engine of any kind, that's the fun part of the TQ, being able to "create" something yourself, and race it. I researched a long time, before I settled on the engine I run, it was first introduced in 1993, and is still in production today, it is what Yamaha called the Thundercat, and it is almost bullet proof, and can be bought with low miles on it, for around $600.00, figure another grand for the conversion parts, and all you have in it, is the cost of a set of rods, for a Honda, and it will run, and run, and run. I feel a lot of consideration needs to go into any changes that might be made, and keep in mind, this isn't a money game, most of these guys aren't even close to being rich, so consider the customer also. I would be glad to show anyone the Thundercat engine, and the parts needed to exchange it for the Honda. Bob[COLOR="Black"]