[red70racer]

Shopboss, My apologize for hi jacking your post.
I hope you get to wake up every morning so you too can grow as old as Uncle Ed

Jeff Palazzolo

[Shopboss]

Why is it that almost every time someone posts an event that includes mini sprints, midgets, HPD midgets etc etc it eventually gets hijacked. Started out about advertising a race and shortly turned into ramblings like talking to my uncle Ed at the old folks home!

[99racing]

Yea what he said

[DAD]

Originally Posted by the visitor We were there at Waynesfield last saturday , Had a blast 30 cars we never see that back here(east coast area)... The whole field was real competitive , I only saw 3 midgets also they were pitted down by us and I beleive all focus motors . I think the way things are right now , it works , so Dad quit trying to chang things , leave it alone , you are just going to make the water muddier that it already is . We drove over 500 miles to come play won the second B main,started 18th and finished 9th.......with a brand new car and a track we never been to. That says alot about how competitive these cars are , so we are coming back at the end of july for 2 days to have more fun .

Visitor

Glad you made the 1000 mile trip to come to Waynesfield to race. You would probably enjoy a trip of 100 miles or less more. Glad you did so well and glad you had fun. I guess since you made the trip you are not opposed to racing Midgets with larger motors. Your car is probably a Midget also with a little different power plant and drive system. You said they had 30 cars but only 3 Automotive powered Midgets. You mentioned that you guys do not draw a large car count to your races. Indiana and Ohio have always been blessed with a lot of Motorcycle powered Midget Race cars. I bet where you race there are a few Midgets parked because like those 3 cars that showed up to race at Waynesfield they can not produce a large enough car count to justify a race. Why not open your fields up to them also.

The cry goes out "Oh My God They have way Too Much Horsepower to Allow them to race with Us" I would guess you were pretty competitive with the Automotive Midgets that you raced with last weekend. OK some Midgets have a little more Horsepower on tap than a Focus can produce. Take for example Ecotecs and the old Pontiacs>>Sesco's>>VW's>>etc. Winning at racing is really all about how much power you can apply to the race track as opposed to how much Power your engine has on hand. For guys with 400 HP Midgets the 12" rear is a bit small and the winner is the driver that can spin his rear wheels the least and accelerate the fastest (a very hard technique to master). Before Montpelier got so good at track prep the Motorcycle Midgets could run up front with the big boys when the track slicked off>>>That is Not so any more, Harold and his crew just do too good of a job getting that track prepped for the feature.

The Midgets in Northern Illinois have been doing a lot of experimenting with smaller tires and seem to have made some headway. Is that right red 70 Racer?

Racers love to race. If you can't guarantee a track about 20 cars are so they aren't too interested in racing you. Many groups have a hard time with this number. A 12 inch rear tire might be just a bit large for D II Midgets. If we were to change to a 10 " tire we would be able to perform very well and would have a chance of leveling the playing field in favor of the better drivers as opposed to more Horsepower. If the lightning Sprint Racers could ever figure out that they too are racing Midgets and would open up their rules to allow that extra 3 or 5 Midget powered cars to race with them It would be a big + for every one concerned.

The National Midgets have got to the point that they need a bigger rear tire again. The D II Midgets could switch to a slightly smaller tire and put on as good of show or maybe better and also allow the more powerful and slightly heavier cars to race also.

The Pic of Jimmy racing was to illustrate that Midgets can race on smaller tires and still do a good job. Yeh>>> we could probably take a 1000cc car and worry the heck out of Jimmy with a good driver in it. Times change.

I think that the Division II Midgets have a bright future, their rules are much more inclusive than either Midget rules or for that matter Lightning Sprint rules whatever a "lightning" something is.

Their are several classes of Midget race cars out there. Not many of them can produce a 30 car field not that you really want one that large. If they would adopt a less restrictive rule package toward one another they could help one another.

By adopting a 10 inch right rear the racers would go a long way in making racing more competitive for everybody. If a 400 horsepower car can make do on a 12 inch right rear seems like a 250 horsepower car could do a good job on a 10" tire. And Yeh Jim Jones not everybody can drive over to Tim's and buy scuffs. And if they did he would soon run out of used tires.

Honest Dad himself

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Shopboss Why is it that almost every time someone posts an event that includes mini sprints, midgets, HPD midgets etc etc it eventually gets hijacked. Started out about advertising a race and shortly turned into ramblings like talking to my uncle Ed at the old folks home!

Shop

Thanks>>if you listen to your old uncle a little you might gleam just a bit of truth somewhere in his ramblings. I am sorry that you got so deep into the thread before you realized it had been Hijacked. If you go to user Cp you can turn off this dribble and not be bothered with it.

By the way 35 is still trying to improve its car count for the Midgets, 20 or so years ago an average field of 600cc uprights there was 30 or so cars.

Honest Dad himself

[Shopboss]

"By the way 35 is trying to increase its car counts"

And that is what this thread is about. Guys took the time out of their day to advertise the upcoming race and get others to come race with them. Not about wheel size, horsepower difference or what phase the moon will be in during race time.

[the visitor]

Dad.........New Foz G3......with a few tweaks to run strictly wingless(thanks to the boy's at aero wings/Speed Partz).
Yamaha 2012 R1 .....So it's a lightning sprint......not a converted midget .
We like wingless, but they don't run it much back here , saw the shows going on at Waynesfield and Lima .
Now just found out about the shows at 35 raceway just might have to make a trip up there too.
You can run a 10" r/r wheel if you want , not sure if there is a tire out there .
but nobody is that I know of ...could be a reason for that , we can light up a 12" when we want to .......
Going to try to find out more about 35 raceway .....could be fun.......

[DAD]

the

For whatever it is worth we were racing Foz cars when they were called Stealth. We have one of the very few Stealth Midgets that was Built as a Mini Sprint (smaller top rail) by John Godfrey. The race car before that was a Beast built as a Mini Sprint. The reason for switching from the Beast to the Stealth was that John at that time was at the cutting edge of Midget design. It employed all of the Buzz words you guys use today Z link rear suspension>>>Coil over shocks>>>Extremely offset chassis and even Left exit exhaust system with. This was back in I think 1991. Most racers at the time thought this a rather dumb design and when they tried it the couldn't make it work. Now 20+ years later it is considered normal practice. The Henchcraft now from Eagle Motorsports and Speedway Motors is also designed as a Min sprint for cycle motors. It uses the haitpin or wishbone rear sspension and goes so far as to move the left lower frame to inside the rear sprocket to make gear changing easier much like our old Beast Car. The newest entry to Min Sprint chassis would be the Hyper chassis by Mike Dicely. Mike designed a midget chassis and Mini Sprint chassis at the same time. It uses the Z-link but moves the left lower frame rail inside the sprockets to accommodate the changing of sprockets.

That Foz car of yours was also built by John Godfrey now known as Spike chassis for Larry and Scott Fasse. They gave it the name and market it to racers. It is a good chassis but basically as you said a Midget knock off. The Hoosier Speed chassis is simply a Tripple X chassis that is a Spike Knock off made in China to make it more affordable. The Bradley's then make motor mounts and a chain guard to convert it into a "Lightning Sprint". Every thing on a "Lightning Sprint" started out as a component for a Midget even the rear axle.

We now race a FSC chassis built by AJ Felker. AJ was my first driver. Our car is built from the ground up using a special Jigs and Fixtures for a Mini Sprint. Because of his experience racing chain drive cars AJ has changed the rear suspension around to make it more comparable to chain drive. It works pretty good with a wing and is exceptional without the wing on. A most copied race car.

A lot of racers I guess would consider me as a ranter. This rant started several years with a discushion right here on "IOW" with a southern Gentleman by the name of Wyne Davis from Florida. Basically it started as an discussion about an appropriate name for "Mini Sprints" he had drank some KoolAid somewhere and he thought that "Lightning Sprint" was hand down the best name for this type of race car. My argument was "What the hell is a Lightning" and can you name me what parts we held in common with a Sprint Car? Turned out to be the Steering Wheel and Seat and Seat belts. Every thing else came right from a person selling Midget parts out of a midget bin. So I assumed that we were racing Midgets as opposed to "Mini Srint" or "Lightning Sprint". The only difference was the engine and drive system. The really neat thing is that back in the Midgets infancy they also used Motorcycle Motors and chain drive.

It was about this time we attended the first Shoot Out in Tulsa (we lead a great deal of the race and lost out because the last 10 laps had a spin a lap (seems Winged racers don't do too good without their wings until they get a little seat time) Well the right rear glazed over and we fell back and finished second. This was also the first year for the Ecotecs to race the Shoot Out also. I watched their races and clocked them>>>I'll be darned they and us were turning almost identical lap times. I think they only had about 10 cars that time out. I thought heck if we are that close to one another why don't we race together and help both our car counts out.

Wayne did that exactly by making rules to combine Focus>>Ecotec's and motorcycle powered race cars together. He went on to name his creation Division II Midgets. You know sure enough all of these cars did race well together. I also went so far as to sponsor an indoor race in DuQuoin Illinois last winter with all of these classes racing together they were also competitive there.

We have also raced with the National Midgets once at North Vernon Indiana and on 2 or 3 times at Montpelier...Guess what we have always managed to finish just a little better than Mid pack with these cars.

Kenny Brown of the National PowrI Midgets has noticed Wayne's work down in Florida and has with Wayne formed a group of PowrI Southern States Division II Midgets in Florida and Georgia. He has also formed a Division II group in Indiana. It looks as if they just might develop into something.

Indiana is a little different than many states. We are not particularly hurting for car count but we have several Midget Divisions such as Focus>Honda>and even slightly over the hill National Midgets that can't come up with enough cars to race.

The Focus> Ecotec and Cycle cars are pretty close in performance. The old National Midgets might just have a few more beans in their pot than the other cars. Now I start thinking about handicapping something we do with race horses. Weight doesn't work too well because we do pretty good job and are about 150 pounds heavy. Restrictor plates are too complicated. On a slick small track we can give the National Midgets a pretty good race, on a heavy track we loose out. Why not go back to a tire used 20 or so years ago with a 10 inch tread. Races are won in Mini Sprints by the racer that puts the power to the ground and not in smoke. If we changed to a 10 inch tread it would be easier for an underpowered 1000cc car to control than a 166ci Esslinger but a good driver could do it. A novice driver with very little throttle control would just go up in smoke while a knowledgeable driver would just drive right on by. I would just like for those interested party's to think about this and comment. I love Midget racing even Lightning sprint racing, but I am looking down the road.

Could we treat this like a discushion?

Honest Dad himself

[Crankin]

Can someone/anyone PUHHHHLLLEEEEZZ give DAD his own forum?!

[DAD]

Crankin

You are 3 pages in? You know this stuff is really only relevant to those that race these types of cars>>>I would advise just keep on walking nothing to see here approach. 35 raceway and a few other race tracks are looking for a new lower cost form of open wheel race car to race. Mini Sprints have a few draw backs I have a few ideas to make a better class and IOW is a good forum to express these Ideas. What do you think about combining the several sub classes of Midget racing into one group? When Montpelier was thinking about forming a Midget class we had several long discussions on IOW and they continue to do well.

Honest Dad himself