A.J.
I agree with you on what impact the retirement of Terry will have. I am sure that Oogie and Jason and anyone else with Goff Racing will run with as much intensity as Terry does now.

And, one of the problems is consistency from race-to-race and-year to-year. However, USAC has the same problem, as does NASCAR. In Major League Baseball each umpire calls the strike zone slightly differently, and some even adjust it themselves if they believe they have been wrong. The same in the NBA on fouls, and the NFL on various things. We're talking about human beings not androids equipped with electronic eyes and a perfect recall of EVERY word in the rule book.

This infighting did not begin with the Goffs. It will not end when they are gone. It has always been there.

Before them, it was Dwenger Racing "ruining" UMRA. Before that, it was the Ambroses. The Yagle family sold off their stuff in the early 1980s and switched to other divisions.

And, it will evolve in a new racing league.

Infighting is one thing. Rough riding is another. It should not be allowed in any racing division. In my opinion, rubbing ain't racing. It's stupid. It's dangerous. Deliberately ramming another car can never be allowed. The only problem is, except in the most blatant incidents, the only person who really knows if the driver deliberately drove into another car is the driver himself. And, he's not going to admit it -- even if he did.

One final note, having been a reporter for many years, I was always amused at people who ran for office with great ideals and then found out just how much time and effort is involved. The $100 a race stipend given to the UMRA president is a very small rate for the time and dedication needed. I have seen school board members, county commissioners and even state representatives claim they understoood only to watch all but a very few become overwhelmed by the task. The same's true with running a racing organization, or at least, that's what I understand after talking many who have.

JIM MORRISON

[thebus79h]

I've not been around TQ's for a few years, we finally got out of them in 04 I believe, as I got my brother in law out of those cars and into 600cc micro sprints. Me and my dad in 1999 were looking into getting an open wheeled dirt car, and thought about TQ's before going to micros. What we found was a whole lot of ********, and clubs. Even with a name not saying club, we could tell by the actions of people that we talked to, which is the exact atmosphere we wanted to get out of. We ended up running the micro for a few years until I quit driving for my dad and going out on my own. When I met the girlfriend, her brother was just getting into TQ's with the UMRA, this was back in 04.. They looked cool, and I liked the idea, and we went to the track the first time, and I wanted to see how they would run. The first race I saw was at Rushville, and when we pulled in, it reminded me a whole lot of the tracks I'd run in the micro. When hotlaps started, it didn't resemble anything like I had thought. I was genuinely dissapointed with what I saw. It's not a knock on anybody, but I wasn't impressed, and the racing I found, well, boring. JMO

After two years, 8 motors, couple drivelines, and being left in the infield at Rushville by somebody on a quad that had a winch while the front end of the car is torn out, and rain was coming, we'd had enough. I convinced them that going to the micro sprints was a better solution, and we did. The first night out in the car, the driver said he had learned more about how to tune a chassis, and drive a dirt car than he had in the two years running TQ's. The reason I bring this stuff up, is the stuff that is being raced in TQ's seems to be so outdated, it's not even funny. It looks to me like the UMRA has tried so hard to keep the tradition of what they were doing so much, that it let the racing suffer. I could imagine back in the day, TQ's were really fun to watch. When you go to a micro track up north of Indy, you actually honest to god see guys running the cushion just like you would in a sprint car or a midget, slide jobs, and just fabulous racing. I feel a TQ could definately get to that point, but it would need major revamping. Not a total redesign, but open up the rules to get some more power underneath the hood. I have no clue what a TQ motor even dyno's out at, but I know an 07 Honda 600 RR puts out 130 horsepower, and 49 ft. pounds of torque, and not loosing much through the driveline. I know that a TQ motor can't do that through the driveline, it looses to much power. Why not open the motor rules up a bit to get the cars to actually start going faster. Racing isn't all about speed, but I'll tell you once you get enough power to bust the tires loose and actually have to work the throttle, that's when you'll see racing improve, which will bring more cars. It costs money to race, it's not going to be cheap.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but this is my experience in what I've seen lately, and that may have something to do with falling car counts, maybe people are just going into a different direction. There is many rules that I think need to be opened up to improve the racing, so more people would be interested in coming in. I've had a couple guys that we race micros with be interested in getting a TQ to run the pavement stuff, and when I told them some of the rear track width rules, engine rules, and all that jazz, they've started to look elsewhere. The one that sticks out to me more than anything, is in a micro, you have to be 50" center to center on the rear tires, and in a TQ (which is a bigger car), you can only be 45". Open some of these rules up to make the racing better, and that will attract you more people.

PS. I don't think adding another series will help, one will survive, and one will fail. You guys already have the history, and with the right people that will stand up for the rules, and stand up to make changes to attract more cars, and if those things can happen, the UMRA will be around for another 40 years. We're going through this right now with micro sprints, the NMMA has a very storied history, and is now in the crapper because the organization would not allow for growth, expansion, and development of new technology into the series. You guys aren't at that point yet, but could be given another year or two. Spend the time NOW to fix the problems, and get people on board.

[1021gpa]

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe Billy, The rule was all drivers must be at least 16 years of age. It can't get any more black and white than that. However it happened (and it doesn't matter now) you competed the entire season at the age of 14. Before the 1994 season UMRA found out how old you really were, the membership took a vote, and decided that a rule is a rule. It didn't matter what color of car you drove, or what team you were affiliated with, they didn't bend the rules. Sandy

how did billy puterbaugh get to run a full season being 14? at that same time we purchased a tq and were going to go racing with umra and my son had just turned 15 and we had to provide a birth certificate before we could ever hit they track at the first umra meeting we went to...we were told no way no one under they age of 16 gets to drive...and that is final...so you meen to tell me for a full season no one ever asked him to show any proof of his age? we never did run the tq sold it after attending 3-4 umra meetings and finding out that there was way more bs in that club that i wanted to deal with...and as far as a new series goes i think one of the biggest thing you need to look at is age limit the 16 year old to drive rule is way out of date most kids who are looking to move up are into sprint cars by the time they are 16 why do you think that mini sprints have grown so much over the last few years they allow you to start when you are 13 if you have some racing experience

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by 1021gpa how did billy puterbaugh get to run a full season being 14? at that same time we purchased a tq and were going to go racing with umra and my son had just turned 15 and we had to provide a birth certificate before we could ever hit they track at the first umra meeting we went to...we were told no way no one under they age of 16 gets to drive...and that is final...so you meen to tell me for a full season no one ever asked him to show any proof of his age? we never did run the tq sold it after attending 3-4 umra meetings and finding out that there was way more bs in that club that i wanted to deal with...and as far as a new series goes i think one of the biggest thing you need to look at is age limit the 16 year old to drive rule is way out of date most kids who are looking to move up are into sprint cars by the time they are 16 why do you think that mini sprints have grown so much over the last few years they allow you to start when you are 13 if you have some racing experience

I think the biggest reason for the age minimum is the tracks and insurance. I know with the series I run, we don't run Gas City because you have to be 16 to race there, and that limits a few of our guys. I don't know about the whole insurance deal, but I would imagine that you would have a lot higher rates the younger you go.

[Sandy Lowe]

1021gpa,

Supposedly a proof of age was given to the UMRA president. I was the club secretary at the time and was told everthing was OK, he's 16.

The cat got let out of the bag at a fall Rushville race. Billy came through the pit gate wearing a football jersey. Brownsburg I think? I asked him what position he played, then if he was varsity or JV. When he told me he played 8th grade it was pretty obvious that he wasn't 16. When the season started back in the spring he would have only been in the 7th grade.

I don't know when you tried to race with UMRA. If it was after 1993 you probably needed to provide proof with a birth certificate because of this incident. I think the rule now reads "All drivers must be at least 16 years of age and able to prove it."

In the fall of 1993 (or spring of 1994) the Puterbaugh's petitioned to allow Billy to run at the age of 15. They wanted to grandfather him in because he ran at 14. The membership was given two choices to vote. 1) Lower the minimum age for everybody to 15, or 2) Keep the minimum age at 16 and do not allow him to compete. They voted to keep the age at 16.

I know that now there are a lot of drivers under the age of 16 that race sprint cars. I don't believe that was the case back in 1993.

Just to make this clear I really like Bill, Joyce and Billy. I'm not mad at them for what happened in 1993. I had actually forgotten about it until Billy brought it up in his post.

Sandy

[Brewer 14]

I was really hoping that this thread would make it to 100 posts! So I guess I will try and give it new life. The following are some of the thoughts I have had running through my head.

1. UMRA is not the only cluster f**k out there, look at USAC.

2. Times have changed and the min. age must be dropped to at least 14 for the TQ's. Get these kids in the TQ's and not the Mini-sprints.

3. TQ's put on the best shows at the small fairground tracks where they are the stars of the show. If a young kid wants to move up they will learn more in a TQ at Rushville than they ever will in a TQ (or mini sprint for that matter) at Bloomington or North Vernon. Besides why pad the back gate for a promoter at a Sprint Car race?

4. It won't hurt the TQ's to move to larger motor configurations, lengthen, & widen the cars. (don't go overboard on the motors but it is time to update)

5. TQ's are suppose to be economy racing. Membership cost for the UMRA are way too expensive and this is nothing new. I complained about this to the board in '01. (a lot of good that did)

6. Racing associations should not double as insurance agents. Every driver needs to look out for themselves and that includes buying their own insurance. We buy helmets and pay several hundred dollars to have a fancy paint job put on them. Here is an idea, forget the paint and buy and insurance policy!

7. Two organizations can survive. Look to USAC and MSCS. At one time there were 40-50 cars showing up at Rushville to race. The cars are out there. The people just want at place were they can come and race with no B.S. and it should not cost them a fortune to get in the gate.

8. Terry Goff's retirement (which I have heard before) will have no bearing on the future of the UMRA, nor should it. People come and go but the club will continue or fail on its own merit.

9. Finally, UMRA is club racing. Club racing gives every member a say in what goes on. Which is not always a good thing. Somebody has to run the show and tell everyone how things are going to work. Sometimes Chief Stewards, Flagmen, Presidents, and ect. can't make the calls necessary because they are at the mercy of the membership which causes inconsistency.

Well, that is about all I can think of for now.

J.L. Brewer

[hacksaw]

Does the new series have a race scheduled for 2008 or will it start in 2009? Have heard rumors of a race at Rushville this fall.

[jontheturboguy]

I have heard the same thing.
Would like to know something soon so I can start looking for a ride or dust off a ride and get it out of mothballs.

[Ovalmeister]

post #99

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister post #99

Ahhh, quite clever David. You recall the number on Gary B's old hand-built sprint car. Nice work and great memory.