dished Midget Hoods

steveb · 3/9/10, 1:40 AM

Since when did a dish nose cost more then a flat one. Thats new to me. Powder coat cost more then paint. Alluminum wheels cost more then steel. Steel shocks are cheaper too. Should we not allow any of these things. No matter how you look at it it is a race car and it,s gonna cost money

wobbler · 3/9/10, 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMoore10

Several of the midgets at the Chili Bowl had the "dished" hoods . What sanctioning bodies are allowing this latest deal? If it's allowed, here is one more example of piling on more expense for midget owners that is not needed.

Don, just because some cars run in a certain configuration at the Chili Bowl doesn't mean that they will run like that during the season. Remember there aren't too many rules at your beloved Chili Bowl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan

Wait until the Aggressors starts taking off in the USA...

The Aggressor body configuration does not meet USAC ruling and the last 2 trips the Aggressor chassis' have made to the US has seen modifications made to bring them into line.

DonMoore10 · 3/9/10, 10:39 AM

I am totally amazed once again at the mindset of almost all of the posters in this thread falling into the same trap that has lead to the decline of midget racing over the past few years. Reading these posts is clear proof that almost all of you "don't get it."

My question I posed has still not been answered. Did the midget race car fans petition the sanctioning bodies that they wanted these hoods, more cubic inches for certain engines, titanium parts, cage panels etc etc? If not, then why are we doing it?? This is real simple IOWheelers and at the heart of the survival of midget racing.

A few years ago, I did some research on the car counts of a very well known not for profit midget org. ( not USAC) I documented it from 1999 on. The research showed and proved that this club was about to head for the graveyard if they didn't do something about it. Just reporting the facts on here. Facts don't lie, people. Right after I posted the decline in car count facts, I was blasted into orbit by a race official from that group. Now this person was so close to the situation the person couldn't see the forest for the trees. My prediction came true and now this club is scrambling to survive. Wakeup people and get real.

Yes, I can well afford one of the dished hoods. DUH. It's the direction behind the idea that is frightening, actually beyond freightening, it's reality right now.

We are at a very critical turning point in midget racing. There are going to be some showdowns coming up soon and time will tell where the midget community is headed. Buying a dished hood may not be an issue at the end of this season if you have very few or no races. We will see.

Haulerin2deep · 3/9/10, 12:35 PM

I do agree with don on a lot of his opinions. On this one about the dished hood I have a different perspective. We swithched to the dished hood last year midseason after getting a new motor for our sprint car. Seems the older style nose piece on our sprint car was causing a lot of air cavation under the nose and were having a heating problem. One advantage of the dished hood is that it allows you to focus the airflow directly into the radiator of a sprint car. However alot if not most midgets still utalize a lay down radiatior so I am unsure of the advantage of running a dished nose. Just my observation.

Chad Branson
#71

DonMoore10 · 3/9/10, 1:11 PM

Putting a dished (a coverup for a built in wing ) hood on my midgets would be impossible unless I spent a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to reconfigure under the hood as Chad Branson pointed out.... or buy new frames/cars $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that would allow the new configuration.

RichC · 3/9/10, 2:48 PM

I'm just a bit curious as to how one is supposed to stop people from innovating? Exactly how do you write a rule book that takes every single possible element of a racecar into account? Then what happens when some clever racer comes up with a part that meets the rulebook but doesn't meet your thoughts of what a racecar should be. Should the deciding factor on whether to allow the part is if it costs more than $100? Haven't midgets historically been the place with the most innovation in the midget/sprint/silver crown car world?

Let's talk about dished nose pieces for example. How much dish is too much? Any? What if the winner has his nose crushed in by a rock? He may have started the race with negative dish but finished it with positive dish. Should he be dq'd? Let's say the dished hoods are disallowed. What if I decide to create another device of some sort whose sole intent is to create nose downforce and do it in such a way that it falls within the rules. Let's call it a belly pan. What it I then put it underneath my legal nosepiece. I have a legal nosepiece but I've now thought of something different. Wouldn't it just be less aggravating to you and the sanctioning body if you just shot me then?

Who decides that some aspect of a car not covered in the rulebook is wrong? The dished hood came directly from wing cars. USAC already had a rule for how far above/below the downtubes for bodywork could be for the sprintcars. The dished noses fell within those measurements. Please explain to me what rationale the officials could use for disallowing someone's car when it was legal within the stated rules?

Midget racing (and all racing in general) has multiple problems right now. The cost/return ratio is waay out of whack. I don't see the return part changing anytime soon so the cost has to be addressed. There's no way to reduce the costs without making some group unhappy. You should just make everyone unhappy and make midgets a spec series. Everything is identical. Hell, let's take it farther. Make the series just like Go Kart World. USAC provides the racecars and the drivers draw for which car they get.

The problem in midget racing has very little to do with nosepieces. Fixing nosepieces is akin to pissing in the wind with all the other problems. Finding a way for the midgets to continue is a big, looming problem and I just don't see how addressing it by starting at the lower cost items is the solution.

DonMoore10 · 3/9/10, 3:20 PM

Just one very small piece of the puzzle. You guys still don't understand that this is just one small representation of why we are where we are today.

TQ29m · 3/9/10, 3:42 PM

Just MHO, but that goes back to the "Spirit and Intent" clause that used to be in the first paragraph of every racing organization I've ever belonged to, may even be in the Constitution, it doesn't stop innovation, but does encompass everthing that follows. I doubt the hood will make much of a difference in performance, but why raise so much heck over it, all people aren't Lemmings, maybe! Bob

DonMoore10 · 3/9/10, 4:53 PM

Here's something extremely novel. Let's be innovative and dream up ways to bring the cost down of fielding a midget.

I'm trying to also dream up ways of getting the point across here of this thread. Let's try this again: A dished hood is only one tiny, tiny, tiny tiny, tiny part of the issue here with midgets. T-I-N-Y. Guys, despite what you'd like to see happen with technology and innovation, the worst direction we could go right now is dreaming up one more item or one more penny to put on or spend on a midget.

I think one of the main problems here in understanding the subject is that midget racing has gotten so far beyond reason that you people have no idea how far off the track it has gotten. Your concept of a midget team is Steve Lewis and all the disciples that have followed in his path. Go to a USAC national midget race and walk thru the pits or for that matter, just stand by the pit gate as all the haulers make their way into the pits. Take all that in and then remind yourself that they are racing for $2500 to win and the purse drops off dramically after that.

Public schools are in big trouble in the state of Ohio, much like midget racing. The state legislature keeps dreaming up new mandated programs ( innovation, guys!!!) with no funding to go along with it. Yeah... Here are several new innovative programs that you must implement. Have a great time figuring out how you're going to pay for them. Using the reasoning I'm reading on here, you people probably think this is just fine. Try telling that to the school boards in Ohio that are over their heads in debt and no way out. No different in midget racing, guys.... but in midget racing we have people like Steve Lewis who have bottomless pockets and can keep spending for an eternity without feeling the pinch. That's what most of you perceive at this time of what midget racing is about.

TQ29m · 3/9/10, 5:26 PM

Don, I totally agree with you, and I'm so damnd glad, that instead of buying a full midget, in 1991, I bought a TQ, that I thank myself everyday for that decision. I would have dearly loved to had a midget, but as I looked at what was then, just the beginning, of what is now, I thought Nah, I'll wait and see, I had several friends with midgets, and it would have been fun, but not for long, that's about the time things started spreading out across the country, some help came when the 16th track was put to use, but we were still running TQ's, not making big purses, but we didn't have to buy the wheel, or the hood of the day, to be able to keep up. GoKarts got the same way, there isn't much anymore that can be added, and still call it racing, you might just as well go to a Casino for the night, your odds would be better. I'm hoping John pulls some good car counts with the new series, and I never understood why, in the past, some track owner didn't say to himself, man, there's a nich that needs filled, I'm gonna invite them to run at my track! But, no one stepped up, and it's where it is today, but maybe that's about to change, lets hope so! Bob

3/9/10, 3:42 PM	#18 Re: dished Midget Hoods
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,213	Just MHO, but that goes back to the "Spirit and Intent" clause that used to be in the first paragraph of every racing organization I've ever belonged to, may even be in the Constitution, it doesn't stop innovation, but does encompass everthing that follows. I doubt the hood will make much of a difference in performance, but why raise so much heck over it, all people aren't Lemmings, maybe! Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

3/9/10, 5:26 PM	#20 Re: dished Midget Hoods
TQ29m Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6,213	Don, I totally agree with you, and I'm so damnd glad, that instead of buying a full midget, in 1991, I bought a TQ, that I thank myself everyday for that decision. I would have dearly loved to had a midget, but as I looked at what was then, just the beginning, of what is now, I thought Nah, I'll wait and see, I had several friends with midgets, and it would have been fun, but not for long, that's about the time things started spreading out across the country, some help came when the 16th track was put to use, but we were still running TQ's, not making big purses, but we didn't have to buy the wheel, or the hood of the day, to be able to keep up. GoKarts got the same way, there isn't much anymore that can be added, and still call it racing, you might just as well go to a Casino for the night, your odds would be better. I'm hoping John pulls some good car counts with the new series, and I never understood why, in the past, some track owner didn't say to himself, man, there's a nich that needs filled, I'm gonna invite them to run at my track! But, no one stepped up, and it's where it is today, but maybe that's about to change, lets hope so! Bob __________________ "Being old, isn't half as much fun, as getting there"! Ole Robert I!

3/9/10, 1:40 AM	#11 Re: dished Midget Hoods
steveb Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 26	Since when did a dish nose cost more then a flat one. Thats new to me. Powder coat cost more then paint. Alluminum wheels cost more then steel. Steel shocks are cheaper too. Should we not allow any of these things. No matter how you look at it it is a race car and it,s gonna cost money

3/9/10, 10:39 AM	#13 Re: Dished Midget Hoods
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	I am totally amazed once again at the mindset of almost all of the posters in this thread falling into the same trap that has lead to the decline of midget racing over the past few years. Reading these posts is clear proof that almost all of you "don't get it." My question I posed has still not been answered. Did the midget race car fans petition the sanctioning bodies that they wanted these hoods, more cubic inches for certain engines, titanium parts, cage panels etc etc? If not, then why are we doing it?? This is real simple IOWheelers and at the heart of the survival of midget racing. A few years ago, I did some research on the car counts of a very well known not for profit midget org. ( not USAC) I documented it from 1999 on. The research showed and proved that this club was about to head for the graveyard if they didn't do something about it. Just reporting the facts on here. Facts don't lie, people. Right after I posted the decline in car count facts, I was blasted into orbit by a race official from that group. Now this person was so close to the situation the person couldn't see the forest for the trees. My prediction came true and now this club is scrambling to survive. Wakeup people and get real. Yes, I can well afford one of the dished hoods. DUH. It's the direction behind the idea that is frightening, actually beyond freightening, it's reality right now. We are at a very critical turning point in midget racing. There are going to be some showdowns coming up soon and time will tell where the midget community is headed. Buying a dished hood may not be an issue at the end of this season if you have very few or no races. We will see.

3/9/10, 12:35 PM	#14 Re: dished Midget Hoods
Haulerin2deep Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 205	I do agree with don on a lot of his opinions. On this one about the dished hood I have a different perspective. We swithched to the dished hood last year midseason after getting a new motor for our sprint car. Seems the older style nose piece on our sprint car was causing a lot of air cavation under the nose and were having a heating problem. One advantage of the dished hood is that it allows you to focus the airflow directly into the radiator of a sprint car. However alot if not most midgets still utalize a lay down radiatior so I am unsure of the advantage of running a dished nose. Just my observation. Chad Branson #71

3/9/10, 1:11 PM	#15 Re: dished Midget Hoods
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Putting a dished (a coverup for a built in wing ) hood on my midgets would be impossible unless I spent a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to reconfigure under the hood as Chad Branson pointed out.... or buy new frames/cars $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that would allow the new configuration.

3/9/10, 2:48 PM	#16 Re: dished Midget Hoods
RichC Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 76	I'm just a bit curious as to how one is supposed to stop people from innovating? Exactly how do you write a rule book that takes every single possible element of a racecar into account? Then what happens when some clever racer comes up with a part that meets the rulebook but doesn't meet your thoughts of what a racecar should be. Should the deciding factor on whether to allow the part is if it costs more than $100? Haven't midgets historically been the place with the most innovation in the midget/sprint/silver crown car world? Let's talk about dished nose pieces for example. How much dish is too much? Any? What if the winner has his nose crushed in by a rock? He may have started the race with negative dish but finished it with positive dish. Should he be dq'd? Let's say the dished hoods are disallowed. What if I decide to create another device of some sort whose sole intent is to create nose downforce and do it in such a way that it falls within the rules. Let's call it a belly pan. What it I then put it underneath my legal nosepiece. I have a legal nosepiece but I've now thought of something different. Wouldn't it just be less aggravating to you and the sanctioning body if you just shot me then? Who decides that some aspect of a car not covered in the rulebook is wrong? The dished hood came directly from wing cars. USAC already had a rule for how far above/below the downtubes for bodywork could be for the sprintcars. The dished noses fell within those measurements. Please explain to me what rationale the officials could use for disallowing someone's car when it was legal within the stated rules? Midget racing (and all racing in general) has multiple problems right now. The cost/return ratio is waay out of whack. I don't see the return part changing anytime soon so the cost has to be addressed. There's no way to reduce the costs without making some group unhappy. You should just make everyone unhappy and make midgets a spec series. Everything is identical. Hell, let's take it farther. Make the series just like Go Kart World. USAC provides the racecars and the drivers draw for which car they get. The problem in midget racing has very little to do with nosepieces. Fixing nosepieces is akin to pissing in the wind with all the other problems. Finding a way for the midgets to continue is a big, looming problem and I just don't see how addressing it by starting at the lower cost items is the solution.

3/9/10, 3:20 PM	#17 Re: dished Midget Hoods
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Just one very small piece of the puzzle. You guys still don't understand that this is just one small representation of why we are where we are today.