carburated crate motor sprints?

tjtomthumb · 10/23/07, 1:59 PM

With so much discussion on the rising costs of sprint car racing and Seadog bringing up the 305 sprint class, what would you all think of a "sealed" crate motor sprint class?

At Waynesfield Motorsports Park in Waynesfield, Ohio this season, Dustin Trost lost his good 410 motor and the owner had a carbruated crate motor there in the garage, so they decided to put it in and see what happened. Dustin ran competetive the rest of the season with that crate motor. He was transferring to the a-main and was a 5th to 10th place car with the carburated crate motor against the injected motors. If you didn't know it was a crate motor, you wouldn't really tell the difference.

ASA has been doing this with their traveling late model series and many tracks across the country are running a weekly late model class with great success and a HUGE savings in engine costs.

This could make a sprint car affordable to many of the stock car and modified drivers. Combine your stock car and modified purse pay-out to make a decent purse for the new class, and promoters, you could have a 2 class sprint car and even 1 very cheap and limited stock car class, so that the sprint fans would have time for a beer break & visit session, lol and the 3 large class' would keep your back gate decent.

I would like to hear the opinions of the owners, drivers, fans etc on a "sealed" carburated crate motor sprint car class. The motors are, I believe available in Chevy, Ford or Mopar configuration. IMO a whole class of these would put on a really good show, eleminate the big money advantage and put the sprint car racing back to the drivers skills and not in the best engine builders hands and it could be a fun rivialry with the Chevy, Ford and Mopar fans.

What do you all think of this?

8ball · 10/23/07, 2:16 PM

Sounds like a good idea on paper, but I can see a few problems. First of all, wasn't there a similar concept for the Ford Focus midgets? The main difference (among many others) here would be that you would be running the same track rather than traveling 400+ miles to go race at times. The track or sanctioning body would have to keep the costs down with rules like spec shocks (or a shock $$ limit), no carbon fiber, no titanium, gear rules, and some sort of tire rule. The problem there is that it becomes some sort of "spec" series which is popular with some, but there are others that say it can lead to boring racing with little passing since the cars are too equal.

Also, what is to say that the fans will accept this? I'm sure there will be some who will watch the 305/crate motor sprints and say "so when are the real sprint cars coming out?" Joe New Fan who may be at the races for his first time won't know what the difference between a 305/crate sprint and a 410, and may wonder "why are they wasting so much time running two different classes with the same cars?"

What will the modified and stock car guys that want to move up to this new series do with their old equipment especially if there is no market for it? They won't have a choice but to keep racing it if they can't get rid of it. In that case you can't just get rid of those divisions and add a limited sprint division, so in essence you will just be adding another division making the night longer for everyone.

Not trying to be Mr. Negative here, but promoters, track owners, and car owners are going to really have to look into all this before anything can happen. Who knows, maybe the mini and micro sprint crowd would jump at this kind of opportunity since it may actually be cheaper than what they are currently doing? There isn't too big of an argument for spending $40,000+ for a 410 motor and $20,000 for a roller when you can be racing for so much cheaper nowadays. Something does need to be done, but it's never as easy as it seems or something would have happened a long time ago.

Kirk Spridgeon · 10/23/07, 2:31 PM

I like sprint cars costing more than street stocks, personally. You can try to compete with a variation of engines, as you Tom described. I don't see why anyone wants to make sprint cars a spec class....

rrc · 10/23/07, 3:23 PM

As a fan, i'm just throwing this out here.I like a large car count.Thats whats important to me as a paying fan.Don't get me wrong, I like all types of sprints but I am disappoined when there isn't enough to make a 20-24 car feature.I'm from Ohio, and a few of the area tracks have run a 2000 to win show and have 13-14 cars show up.Now thats disappointment.Give me sprint cars,many,many sprint cars!!

10/23/07, 3:33 PM

I'm with Kirk........ Around here, I wouldn't want the stock/mod guys racing sprints. Again, not trying to be negative, but there would be a LOT of damaged equipment nightly!!!!

tjtomthumb · 10/23/07, 3:46 PM

Sorry, I'm on my way out the door for an appointment, & in a hurry but wanted to add I meant for this to be more of a support class, as the 305 sprints are in some areas. So many times we read so many complaints on the support stock car & modified class'. This class could replace those 2 divisions and at large sprint shows make a complete open wheel show possible, Indiana Sprint-Midget weeks for example. The stock car and modified guys now running would still have the late model tracks etc to run or sell their current equipment and move into an open wheel car to better prepare themselves for the 410 sprints. Two good examples of modified drivers moving up are Brady Short & Jeff Bland Jr. They were fortunate enough to be able to finacially run a 410 but many, & I'll use Shane Mugavin as an example, has said he can't afford a 410 but maybe he could afford a crate deal and maybe later be offered a 410 ride. Got to go,, but I was meaning for this as more of a support class and not to totally eliminate the full blown 410's.

sprint38racer · 10/23/07, 3:49 PM

I'd have to be against that if for no other reason than the increased chance of fire in a crash. Unfortunately sprint cars tend to invert themselves (I have proved this a few times myself) and carbs are not very good at retaining there fuel upside down. This is a problem around hot exhaust. and engine parts. With fuel injection this is not really an issue. Speaking as one who has been roasted before, I would rather not take that chance.

burris7555 · 10/23/07, 4:09 PM

I don't see why everyone fusses about the cost of the 410s now. You do not need a 900hp motor to run a non-wing sprint car around here... This summer was a prime example... Dry and dusty conditions doesn't do anything but throw more problems in to the mix... (10 grand at Lawrenceburg was an exception) As far as sprint cars being more expensive than a modified. The only higher cost is the owner or promoter that pays the purse...

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10/23/07, 1:59 PM	#1 carburated crate motor sprints?
tjtomthumb Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 312	With so much discussion on the rising costs of sprint car racing and Seadog bringing up the 305 sprint class, what would you all think of a "sealed" crate motor sprint class? At Waynesfield Motorsports Park in Waynesfield, Ohio this season, Dustin Trost lost his good 410 motor and the owner had a carbruated crate motor there in the garage, so they decided to put it in and see what happened. Dustin ran competetive the rest of the season with that crate motor. He was transferring to the a-main and was a 5th to 10th place car with the carburated crate motor against the injected motors. If you didn't know it was a crate motor, you wouldn't really tell the difference. ASA has been doing this with their traveling late model series and many tracks across the country are running a weekly late model class with great success and a HUGE savings in engine costs. This could make a sprint car affordable to many of the stock car and modified drivers. Combine your stock car and modified purse pay-out to make a decent purse for the new class, and promoters, you could have a 2 class sprint car and even 1 very cheap and limited stock car class, so that the sprint fans would have time for a beer break & visit session, lol and the 3 large class' would keep your back gate decent. I would like to hear the opinions of the owners, drivers, fans etc on a "sealed" carburated crate motor sprint car class. The motors are, I believe available in Chevy, Ford or Mopar configuration. IMO a whole class of these would put on a really good show, eleminate the big money advantage and put the sprint car racing back to the drivers skills and not in the best engine builders hands and it could be a fun rivialry with the Chevy, Ford and Mopar fans. What do you all think of this?

10/23/07, 2:16 PM	#2 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
8ball Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 29	Sounds like a good idea on paper, but I can see a few problems. First of all, wasn't there a similar concept for the Ford Focus midgets? The main difference (among many others) here would be that you would be running the same track rather than traveling 400+ miles to go race at times. The track or sanctioning body would have to keep the costs down with rules like spec shocks (or a shock $$ limit), no carbon fiber, no titanium, gear rules, and some sort of tire rule. The problem there is that it becomes some sort of "spec" series which is popular with some, but there are others that say it can lead to boring racing with little passing since the cars are too equal. Also, what is to say that the fans will accept this? I'm sure there will be some who will watch the 305/crate motor sprints and say "so when are the real sprint cars coming out?" Joe New Fan who may be at the races for his first time won't know what the difference between a 305/crate sprint and a 410, and may wonder "why are they wasting so much time running two different classes with the same cars?" What will the modified and stock car guys that want to move up to this new series do with their old equipment especially if there is no market for it? They won't have a choice but to keep racing it if they can't get rid of it. In that case you can't just get rid of those divisions and add a limited sprint division, so in essence you will just be adding another division making the night longer for everyone. Not trying to be Mr. Negative here, but promoters, track owners, and car owners are going to really have to look into all this before anything can happen. Who knows, maybe the mini and micro sprint crowd would jump at this kind of opportunity since it may actually be cheaper than what they are currently doing? There isn't too big of an argument for spending $40,000+ for a 410 motor and $20,000 for a roller when you can be racing for so much cheaper nowadays. Something does need to be done, but it's never as easy as it seems or something would have happened a long time ago.

10/23/07, 2:31 PM	#3 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
Kirk Spridgeon Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 802	I like sprint cars costing more than street stocks, personally. You can try to compete with a variation of engines, as you Tom described. I don't see why anyone wants to make sprint cars a spec class....

10/23/07, 3:23 PM	#4 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
rrc Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 236	As a fan, i'm just throwing this out here.I like a large car count.Thats whats important to me as a paying fan.Don't get me wrong, I like all types of sprints but I am disappoined when there isn't enough to make a 20-24 car feature.I'm from Ohio, and a few of the area tracks have run a 2000 to win show and have 13-14 cars show up.Now thats disappointment.Give me sprint cars,many,many sprint cars!!

10/23/07, 3:33 PM	#5 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
Dano959 Posts: n/a	I'm with Kirk........ Around here, I wouldn't want the stock/mod guys racing sprints. Again, not trying to be negative, but there would be a LOT of damaged equipment nightly!!!!

10/23/07, 3:46 PM	#6 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
tjtomthumb Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 312	Sorry, I'm on my way out the door for an appointment, & in a hurry but wanted to add I meant for this to be more of a support class, as the 305 sprints are in some areas. So many times we read so many complaints on the support stock car & modified class'. This class could replace those 2 divisions and at large sprint shows make a complete open wheel show possible, Indiana Sprint-Midget weeks for example. The stock car and modified guys now running would still have the late model tracks etc to run or sell their current equipment and move into an open wheel car to better prepare themselves for the 410 sprints. Two good examples of modified drivers moving up are Brady Short & Jeff Bland Jr. They were fortunate enough to be able to finacially run a 410 but many, & I'll use Shane Mugavin as an example, has said he can't afford a 410 but maybe he could afford a crate deal and maybe later be offered a 410 ride. Got to go,, but I was meaning for this as more of a support class and not to totally eliminate the full blown 410's.

10/23/07, 3:49 PM	#7 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
sprint38racer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 415	I'd have to be against that if for no other reason than the increased chance of fire in a crash. Unfortunately sprint cars tend to invert themselves (I have proved this a few times myself) and carbs are not very good at retaining there fuel upside down. This is a problem around hot exhaust. and engine parts. With fuel injection this is not really an issue. Speaking as one who has been roasted before, I would rather not take that chance.

10/23/07, 4:09 PM	#8 Re: carburated crate motor sprints?
burris7555 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 34	I don't see why everyone fusses about the cost of the 410s now. You do not need a 900hp motor to run a non-wing sprint car around here... This summer was a prime example... Dry and dusty conditions doesn't do anything but throw more problems in to the mix... (10 grand at Lawrenceburg was an exception) As far as sprint cars being more expensive than a modified. The only higher cost is the owner or promoter that pays the purse...