[Al Soran]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester Al, Your right but there are a ton of holes in this. The UMP tracks I've visited, I bet you couldn't build a motor for less than 6000. Rear Steer? When did that become part of IMCA Mods? Shocks, Ungoverned, Running tubes in tires to make them hard tires hook, Well you ruin one quicker than you might think. Claim Rules? Ever been a part of a claim? Seen one happen? The ones I've seen by another team or a promotor left very bitter taste in everyones mouths and I've even seen violence erupt from them. It's gonna take car owners, Sanctioning bodies, Drivers and promotors all sitting at a table nationwide to put together some cost reducing rules. How bout a compression rule? That could save five grand right there (Top three tested at every track every night) How do you get compression? Heads and Pistons, Two of the biggest cost rising issues. Billett alluminum is also going through the roof. Maybe save all your pop tabs and have them melt you down a new block to hone? LOL. How about no adjusters or adjustable shocks with no incar adjusters therefore those saving money on multiple shocks still race with the setup they hit the track at every track and sanction? How about passing points systems. Don't matter if you got a 20 grand car or a 60 grand car, you pass people, you earn your way, (Qualifying often exploits the 40 grand motor from the 20 grand) How about making cost saving rules that keep competition between manufactures in the mix It will have to be universal or it just won't work. As Much as I agree with Kevin, Those that can spend more, Will!!!! and there is no end in sight. Chuck

Chuck, I appreciate your thoughts.

I don't believe anyone mentioned rear steer.

Hard tires save money. No debate there.

No cockpit adjustable anything. Good idea.

And okay, no claim rule. That can be taken care of by using crate motors. Cheap, reliable crate motors. The racing in the classes that utilize those motors is extremely competitive. The fans love it, the fields are full, and the best drivers still find their way to the front.

Sprint car people need to look outside of their small, and getting smaller all the time, group, to see what is working out there. There are classes that are thriving. It's all right there in front of us if we take a look.

[sprint38racer]

Kevin you are exactly right on everything you've said. The little guy is being pushed out and is has happened in just the last few years. In my opinion sprint car racing is heading now were the Indy 500 has went the last 25years. In the late 70's and early eighties it was common place for Grant King, A.J. Watson and many others to take a 4 or 5 year old Indy car, haul it to the speedway on an open trailer and make the 500. As the technology continued to evolve, with skyrocketing costs the 75-95 cars that would show up for the 500 has now dropped to 35-40, with several of them being backups that don't even try to make the race. Sprint car racing is heading down this path. A path where someone with desire and technical ability willing to use and work with equipment not necessarily level witht he top teams, doesn't have a place any longer. As Kevin said there are many drivers at all levels of racing capable of racing in the big leagues. In the mid eighties I worked with a low budget Indy car team that Ken Schrader drove for at the speedway, passing his rookie test and being at a speed to make the race in an older car before it was wrecked in practice. Kenny said something then that I have always remembered "There's a lot of guys out there across the country that have the ability to drive these cars or Nascar that will never get the chance." Unfortunately we may be saying the same thing about sprint car racing in not to distant years to come.

here we go again...

[Dwight Clock]

Originally Posted by Al Soran :headbang:I'll try this once more. I have been preaching this gospel for years and years to deaf ears. Sprint car people don't get it. Maybe someone can explain why. Brick hard right rear tire that can be run half a summer (sorry to the tire dealers out there). Iron block (Ahhhh! Sorry Rodeck, Gaerte, Donovan). No adjustable shocks (sorry Penske). Here's the real deal blower. An engine claim. Say $1500 for the long block. Whoa! God forbid! Would it work? There is an IMCA/UMP modified on every street corner where I live and those are the basic rules governing them. The racing is close and the guys doing it are working stiffs having a blast. The ones who can afford it, step on up into late models. It's working.

Al, you are on the right track but I would make a couple of adjustments. As far as the brick hard RR tire and no adjustable shocks you are dead on. An iron block is a good idea but would force car owners to scrap what they have and spend more money. An engine claim just isn't workable. With a brick hard RR and no cockpit adjustables it would be difficult to get all the power from a banzai engine to the track. Teams would be forced to use their knowledge to get the most out of their program, not their wallet. And a harder LR should be part of the deal as well.

[riskybrisky5]

I like the Midwest All Star tire rule. Whatever tire you qualify on you have to run the heat and feature on the same tire. It would help with costs.

[Andrew S. Quinn]

Could you also give a rundown comparing prices of Transporters in 1986 vs Today??

[flipalong]

Originally Posted by Dwight Clock Al, you are on the right track but I would make a couple of adjustments. As far as the brick hard RR tire and no adjustable shocks you are dead on. An iron block is a good idea but would force car owners to scrap what they have and spend more money. An engine claim just isn't workable. With a brick hard RR and no cockpit adjustables it would be difficult to get all the power from a banzai engine to the track. Teams would be forced to use their knowledge to get the most out of their program, not their wallet. And a harder LR should be part of the deal as well.

Also if you check into like a bowtie or dart steel block they are not far from the cost of a standard aluiminum block.

[Tim Clauson]

Originally Posted by flipalong Also if you check into like a bowtie or dart steel block they are not far from the cost of a standard aluiminum block.

Maybe Brad or Steve can answer this.

What are the cost difference between a Steel Block "race ready" and an aluminum block "race ready" ?

How much difference is there in cost between fixing a steel block and a Aluminum block ?

Are Steel Blocks fixable?

Besides weight what are the advantages of using an aluminum block vs a steel block?

I have my theories but would rather hear from an expert.

Tim Clauson

[thebus79h]

Originally Posted by john3g Kevin... I agree 100%...but is there any kind of answere out there?? When the 360 deal started they all said this is the answere. Cheap engines,you won't use as many tires and you won't have to rebuild the engine as often. Well we all know that deal has gone over the edge financially. Shocks, well they are completely stupid (as far as the price goes). Heck the car is the cheapest item to buy. The tire deal didn't really change the cost of weekend racing as much as advertised. The purses as you stated havn't changed in 20 years and I know that in this day and age it can be tough for a race track owner to make serious money each week but that being said I still think they (PROMOTERS) could be doing more to help the situation by PROMOTING instead of just trusting their fate to chance in the hopes that they will have success just because the doors are open. I mean the promoting thing works!! All you have to do is go to B'town,Tri-State or L'burge to confirm it. As far as cutting the cost so that the blue collar worker can afford to race I'm not to sure that it's not already to late. The fans already pay enough so you can't dig into them for more cash and the racers are paying way to much per week so what do we do. Where do we cut first?? Engines are the most expensive part but what do we do to make the changes necessary to lower the cost that hasn't already been tried?? I am all for a BIG change to lower the cost or you're right there be nothing but big money teams racing. Something needs to be done thats for sure but what??

I for one think that the ASCS is doing a heck of a job with 360 sprint car racing. I for one know my dad would not be able to afford to race a sprint car if it wasn't for the 360's.

I for one would love to race a sprint car, even if it's a once a month deal at a local track, it doesn't matter. What seems to be the trend is the people who want to race sprint cars either for a living, or for fun, cannot afford to even come close. I might be able to straggle enough money to buy a frame with a motor plate, but I severely doubt it. The guys going from micro's to sprint cars are moving on at an astonishing rate that Kevin's right, who are the next Darlands or heck for that matter, Briscoe's going to be?

[Joey Woods]

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