[davidm]

Originally Posted by suzuki756 They are so slow . Hard to watch crates sprints

Crates sprints are still better than no Sprints.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by TQ29m OK, why don't you put your money and effort to work with a track owner or promoter to put together a proposal to try to get say a half dozen races in your area, and do some promotional work to get the cars you can to come race in GA, I have a friend in All who has a similar want, he has spent his own money and time, but ends up coming to Indiana to race it just isn't in their genes down there, we used to make at least two trips a season to the hi banks of Atomic Speedway, and had good crowds and good relationship with the people, it takes some thought and work, but can be done. JAT. Bob

Well that's what I'm working towards, but I want to have my ducks in a row before I go trying to sell someone else on the idea. Indiana is the hub of non-wing sprint racing so I reached out here and a few other places to try and learn what I can. I've never raced a sprint, I've never worked on anything with injection, my only experience with torsion bars was back in 86' on a late model my friends dad had. I get the devotion to 410 sprints as they are, I'm blown away watching them on the tube myself, but hoping to get people in my area to venture into that end of the pool is a kin to asking them to do a local space program... I appreciate the positive input I've got from some, the nay sayers have their right to be opposed, but try and understand, I'm trying to spread the seeds of your sport in some very hard clay, so helping me break up the soil anyway I can, helps you too. I'll be honest I hate wings, hate may be too strong a word, but I have no interest in trying to start up any sort of wing division, somebody else can do that. High down force is part of whats beginning to kill late models, IMHO. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by davidm Crates sprints are still better than no Sprints.

My thoughts exactly. I want to put together the best plan I can, striking a balance between affordability and excitement for the fan and the driver. We have a 602 division late model class that is a terrible follow the leader snooze-fest and the engines sound like they are in a horrible bog. The 602's in the NorthEast wingless sprints are more lively, but out of all the economy non-wing sprints I've researched, to me the racesaver 305's are the most lively, even more so than the CT525's that the UMSS run up in wisconsin.

Racesaver 305(Elite) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2bDbRpfK0M&t=168s
CT525(UMSS) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPlMARmc9W8
GM602(NEWS) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqcLXhAcqV4
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4XwWedJXQ

[kendirt]

D-2 Midgets

A. The class already exists.

B. A good chunk of them are going to be chain-drive, self-starting

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by kendirt D-2 Midgets A. The class already exists. B. A good chunk of them are going to be chain-drive, self-starting

Thank you for your input, but I'm really only interested in a full size sprint class. We have NO WEEKLY SPRINTS in Georgia.

[Rhody]

I am pretty much opposed to anything that further fragments sprint cars, so I would say of the options you list, a standard Racesaver 305 would be my pick. I came from asphalt stock cars,and part of the appeal for me was the lack of rules, and the fact that you could take a 410 or ASCS 360 and race all over the country. When I started I had no clue about sprint car technology and just learned as I went. I like sprints because they are monsters, so I hate 305's, but if I was in GA and dead set against wings I would try the 305 route, that way the same car can go race with the winged Racesavers and I am not stuck with an oddball car that I can't race anywhere else. You may not be interested in wing racing but if you are trying to attract more cars that should be a consideration. I would also stay away from starters and transmissions, they are hurting the budget non wing class out here because of the expense.

[Jcpelly]

I will tell you one thing, the 305 is not more powerful than the Ct525. I am the one that has been doing the testing of the Ct525 for the UMSS up here in Minnesota. The Evolution 525 by Pace Performance has 580HP and really high torque that I can't remember right now. Last year I only ran it in the open form with the wing against the ASCS 360s and at the last race of the year the lap times of a Ct525 were very close to the ASCS motors that have a lot more HP and double the cost. The beauty of this motor is that with no modifications other than a different spacer under the carb it will be restricted down to the 305 motor levels and is now running in the 305 class at Knoxville in that configuration. This year we will be running this motor in the same car in the wing and non wing UMSS sprint series. For it to get down to the level of the SBC 360 motors of the UMSS non wing series we will be running a different MSD box and a rev limiter but no change in the spacer, so the only modification between running both classes will to be to swap the box and throw on the non wing front axle. The goal is to get it down to just under 400hp. If I want I will be able to run this motor in the non wing UMSS, 305 Knoxville, Winged UMSS, non wing HRA, and even USAC or WAR if I wanted to travel. 80 shows before you even have to think about a freshen and then a trade in program from Pace. I think if I were setting up a new non wing budget series I would either go with one of the following options - 305 racesaver, 604 crate, or the Ct525 with the Knoxville spacer. 604 crate is going to be the least expensive, followed by the Racesaver, and then the 525 when you are talking new motors. Other considerations would be if you want the option to use the motor in winged divisions and different classes where the 305 and 525 are going to have more options there. As far as starters, don't do it as it will cause nothing but headaches for the teams. Up here every team is required to have or to arrange a 4 wheeler to start them. 500cc and above wheelers can start all these.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by Rhody I am pretty much opposed to anything that further fragments sprint cars, so I would say of the options you list, a standard Racesaver 305 would be my pick. I came from asphalt stock cars,and part of the appeal for me was the lack of rules, and the fact that you could take a 410 or ASCS 360 and race all over the country. When I started I had no clue about sprint car technology and just learned as I went. I like sprints because they are monsters, so I hate 305's, but if I was in GA and dead set against wings I would try the 305 route, that way the same car can go race with the winged Racesavers and I am not stuck with an oddball car that I can't race anywhere else. You may not be interested in wing racing but if you are trying to attract more cars that should be a consideration. I would also stay away from starters and transmissions, they are hurting the budget non wing class out here because of the expense.

Thank you I'll take that into consideration. I am as you put it, "dead set against wings", I won't bother if wings are involved because it just adds another dimension of difficulty, that and the FASTRAK crate late model people tried to get a wing sprint class going, but got no interest. The difference in what I'm planning to do and what they did is I'm gonna build 2 cars and actually let people try them out and see how awesome they are. The NEWS guys up north did it that way and the class exploded in a very short time. The FASTRAK dudes just threw the idea out and hoped somebody would build a car... Crickets. Personally I think the racing is better with non-wing than a wing, not that WoO sprints aren't impressive, but the minute you slap a wing on anything the engine costs go up and up and up, because it takes HP to push it threw the air. The upside to where you are in California, is that its the other hotbed of sprints. Out of all the budget minded (full size) sprint car classes I've looked into, the RS305 is by far the most racy, to me. The RS305 & 360 wing stuff exists in the Carolina's(as a tour) and in Florida, but zero weekly sprints of any kind run in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina or Tennessee, that I am aware of. The biggest reason I'm considering the GM602 is there is already an abundance of them around my area and thats one less obstacle in swaying people to commit. Second, the GM602 is what is working in the NorthEast as well as the transmission/starter deal. I'm only in the planning stages, trying to learn everything I can, watching to see what works in other areas and do everything I can to make this a success. I really do appreciate everyone's input, opinions and advice. I do have one question, you mentioned the transmission being an issue, what's the problem with it? Failures or Initial expense?

[motorhead748]

Originally Posted by suzuki756 They are so slow . Hard to watch crates sprints

Exactly... I think what the op is missing is that if you dumb a sprint car down enuff to where anybody can have one...what you'll have is an Emod that out runs them.
And if you're in LM country... That's because that's what the people want to see. As a rule, a lot of LM folk just don't connect to sprint car. But I admire your enthusiasm.

[opnwhlmnd]

USCS Southern Thunder Tour Runs Georgia, Alabama, North/South Carolina and northern Florida quite a bit. It's a 360 winged deal with ASCS rules.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by motorhead748 Exactly... I think what the op is missing is that if you dumb a sprint car down enuff to where anybody can have one...what you'll have is an Emod that out runs them. And if you're in LM country... That's because that's what the people want to see. As a rule, a lot of LM folk just don't connect to sprint car. But I admire your enthusiasm.

Hey I get it, 410 is the e-ching. I don't disagree. Whats funny is you mentioned my plan as, "dumbing down" the sprint makes it an "Emod", that's funny because we don't have those either... Your assertion that I'm attempting to dumb down sprints is accurate, I want it to be as "plug n play" as possible, I want to erase any fears, but maintain the core excitement I've discovered in non-wing sprints. I'm a 30 year DLM convert attempting to convert my countrymen. If we are honest, sprints were not always 410 fire breathing monsters, they became that. A typical saturday night at the races in my area on the GA/SC border is this: 1 class of stk 4 cylinders, 1 class of V8 street stock and 3 classes of Dirt Late Models(GM602 Sportsman, GM604 Crates & Steel Head 358 Limited Late). Supers on a weekly basis died out 10+ years ago. Racing here is in decline, people don't go to watch as much as they did, the economy has never really recovered since 2008. I've started listening to a lot of sprint car podcasts like, JackSlash, WFOpenwheel and Dirt Nation to try and learn as much as I can. Funny thing is on every podcast they mention how important it is to convert the DLM/Modified crowd to sprints, well your talking to one, but down here we are as dedicated to Dirt Late Model as the clay is hard in July. I know these people, I know what confuses and scares them from looking into sprint cars and I'm doing the best i can to get them to dip a toe in the pool. I know if I can ever get it started and show people what I've seen, it'll catch like fire, but telling them they need to build 410 sprints as a place to start would be absurd. You guys have been in this stuff for decades, its the norm, but its alien technology looking in from the outside. I see now why those before me gave up trying to get sprints to work down here.