Originally Posted by R.Drang:
Why does everyone want to cut back the intake of the national engines? A few guys (myself included) have done that. The engines are not built for that. Make them add weight. If a guy can afford a new Toyota, he sure as hell can afford some lead.
R.
The only way to slow that Toyota motor down enough to to make an Echotec competitive with it usingh lead weight you would probably need to install a trailer hitch and build a trailer. You might stuff enoiugh Gold in there but not lead. Now 50 or a 100 lbs. might help the Esslingers and other motors keep up with a Toyota. If a guy can afford to rent a Toyota he should be able to afford to travel with the traveling groups. I know it is very possible that some racer might just get a Toyota to race with the Saturday night racers, we never said you have to be smart to race but if you have your heart set on a Toyota, It sure requires a rather large investment on your part.
NASCAR has been restricting cars with air flow for years. Racers have also spent millions of dollars to achieve the last ounce of power out of those restrictor engines. Horsepower is in the head we call it Volumetric Efficiency "VE". The higher the "VE" is the mower power you have on hand. The best way to control "VE" is limiting the size of hole the air travel through to get to the intake valve. The reason people install superchargers is to raise that "VE" higher than the 100% you can get using atmospheric pressure alone.
Toyota"s have a higher "VE" than their competitors (more Power), There are but a very few drivers that can take advantage of that extra power. They are running up front with USAC and PowrI events right now on the bigger faster tracks.
@ The risk of beatin a dead horse , give the stock block & head 4 valve 2.5 liter EFI engine a 50@ weight break , race em straight up against USAC or anyone else ?
Originally Posted by Roy Bleckert:
@ The risk of beatin a dead horse , give the stock block & head 4 valve 2.5 liter EFI engine a 50@ weight break , race em straight up against USAC or anyone else ?
Roy
Won't work, Let a guy spend some money inside that 2.5 or preferable 3.0 motor and it could be very competitive even with the best of them.
You need to be careful when talking about airflow restrictors. Restrictors only limit the peak airflow. A “national engine” will not have its peak torque affected, only its peak horsepower. Peak torque happens before any restrictors would come into play. For example air restrictors on a “national engine” would not have any effect on its performance from the center of the corner to the flag stand. The engine would only be limited from the flag stand to the corner. USAC has plenty experience with this trying to equate 360’s and 410’s on pavement.
Maybe a tec at the "IRS" could come up with a suggested size for us.
In my younger days (early 70's) I helped out prepping the Edinburgh Indiana National Plymouth Trouble Shooting Champions. These kids were very good usually getting the car up and running in 30 minutes or less. They were also pretty cocky. One day I took the carburetor off made a gasket with two 1/2" holes in it and put it back in place. Well they found and fixed the usual problems and took it for the mandatory test drive. They came back from that ride and their jaws were way way down. It ran great but it would only go 25 miles per hour.
Peak torque is achieved at maximum Volumetric Efficiency? That is The reason old MC Performance is building all those ram air tubes and air breathers assemblies. We can change the point that an engine achieves it's maximum "VE" by making those stacks longer or shorter. Peak Horsepower however is achieved well beyond the peak torque speed. The motor finally just falls on it's face in the case of the old 2 valve motors, now these crazy motorcycle motors just don't seem to know when to quit. They keep going usually until Something just breaks.
I am not sure but I think IRS would probably want about a one inch hole? That size hole would probably also affect peak torque. Like Built in traction control.
Won't work, Let a guy spend some money inside that 2.5 or preferable 3.0 motor and it could be very competitive even with the best of them.
I like to think of it as stirring the pot, Roy.
Honest Dad himself
Maybe DAD , but a stock head & block Eco or HonDoo EFI can get pretty mean with cams pistons on alky , the establishment is balkin @ 2.5 liter , if the sanctions would start with something like my proposal if it needs help , you could then bump up the liters/cubes on it ?
Get your foot in the door right. What I have noticed about racers and people in general is as long as you are hanging around mid pack and back they think you are good people. Start poking around up front then you become a S.O.B. and we need to make a rule to take care of that.
Get your foot in the door right. What I have noticed about racers and people in general is as long as you are hanging around mid pack and back they think you are good people. Start poking around up front then you become a S.O.B. and we need to make a rule to take care of that.
