Good post. RR making contact with LF means most of Loyet's car (including what he could see in his vision) made him think he made the pass for the lead. It's the RF making contact with a LF slider than looks bad. What about my thought of a car in the lead running the bottom around the last 2 turns to protect the bottom from a slider?

The prospect of my face, Hitting Bob Kinsers fist would scare me at PRESENT TIME

I don't have a particular dog in this situation and I wasn't there, but maybe I can shed some light and history on how the race winner decision came about.

Last Summer there was a similar slide job that took place at a POWRi track that knocked a rookie driver from the lead position and the punter went on to win the race. At the the next POWRi race , Race Steward Jim Siner, one of the founding fathers of POWRi, announced at the drivers/owners meeting that if you intend on doing a slide job, you must clear the car you are attempting to pass. BTW, this is also stated in the POWRi rules on their web site. I'm a little fuzzy on the penalty, but it seems to me that if the slide job resulted in illegal contact, that the attempted punter would be sent to the tail. In looking at the results, it appears that Brad Loyet was awarded 11th place which would validate what I just stated. Thus, if Loyet committed the infraction as determined by the Race Steward, he can't possibly win the race according to the rules which were clearly stated (I assume) before the race meet began. Thus, by default, Brad Kuhn was declared the winner.

Knowing Jim Siner, I'm positive that this was reviewed in the DuQuoin drivers meeting prior to the event. I know that I've heard it several times myself in the past year. So, the bottom line is that every driver/owner/crew member was warned about the slide job rule and the consequences that would result if there was illegal contact.

As a former race official, I can tell you the greatest nights for us were absent of controversy and not having to make "that" kind of a call. We always hoped that the competitors could work it out among themselves. Racing back then was a tough sport and the owners, mechanics and drivers were tough as well. However, there was also a certain amount of respect among competitors and that "helped" keep the order. If not, a little "talking to" seemed to keep everyone focused on the job at hand. When the chrome horn did all of the talking, it became our job to step in and settle things down.

Just as the world has changed, so has racing. As the next generation came along, much of the respect that was earned seemed to disappear. You have a different kind of scenario now with competitors racing better equipment, more often and trying to make a name for themselves in order to move up the ladder quickly. Back in the day, a veteran many times was looked up to and a young racers learning curve was much sharper. Today, "kids" of 16 to 20 years old have been racing for 8-10 years or more so the curve isn't so pronounced.

I was at DuQuoin on Saturday night and as I mentioned on another thread, I didn't care who won. I also thought that the officials made a decision and lived with it. I doubt that PowrI wanted to start the season off with that kind of a call deciding the race winner. I am sure one side saw it as nothing more than "just racing" while the other side saw it as "being taken out". Difficult call which certainly didn't receive unanimous approval.

I would like to know if the two drivers even spoke to each other after the races? If not I would hope that sometime in the not to distant future they are able to sit down and settle this argument as competitors. If not, then bad blood will certainly rise up again. I hope cooler head prevail and that they can discuss the situation and put some closure to this sooner rather than later. If you think officials love make these decisions, please think again. They get one look and have to base their decision on that and that only.

That is a good point Tim. The only problem I see with it would be the way they worked the track at mini DuQuion. They worked the track multiple times during the night (including water) but left the bottom line alone. So my guess is that Kuhn went to the top because the top was tacky and fast, but I do see what you mean there could be a different outcome if Kuhn had hugged the bottom.

Maybe days have changed as far as young drivers.I guess I dont understand because I was 31 when I started racing micros and the days of respect was still in my head.My father has told me "your not aggressive enough" because if I wasnt sure I could get under a car cleanly than I backed off and tried again.Ive seen some of the best of the best,Kinser,Swindell,Hewitt Ect,Ect try to throw a slide job and if they thought or knew it wouldnt work the backed off.Even today you dont see Darland doing that.If he cant make his slider work he will back off and get a run on the next corner or straight.And ok Mr. Watson,maybe he could have ran the bottom to try and block and send Loyet to the outside but he didnt.Maybe his car was tight on the bottom.And I also seen well it was RR to LF contact so he thought he was clear from what he could see.No.Try again.You learn to know how wide your car is and where you are on the track.He just drove her in there with the despiration of making it work and it didnt.Not that anybody else in that situation wouldnt.But its a little different when your Jimmy Johnson and have fenders on it.But I cant say Im a die hard fan of either one.If I had to make an "official" call they both would have been placed at the end of the lead lap and 3rd would have been awarded the winner.But I dont know anything so my words dont count.

Again, I think the biggest reason for the penalty was the recurring theme of Brad Loyet's driving. As I said before, I would not have penalized him on Saturday as the move was not all that ridiculous, but I would have never let the situation get to this point. I really like the Loyets, so this has nothing to do with them off the track as they are a bunch of really nice people, but someone should have done something about Brad long before Saturday.

I've seen Brad drive over his head and out of control for a couple years - I've seen quite a few instances, and I don't even see that many POWRi events. That has led to some absolutely ground-pounding crashes of his own in that span. I can also remember his driving prompting Brady Bacon to snap and spin him out at McCool, for which Bacon was parked by POWRi. I also remember Brad Sweet come very close to launching a flattened tire at Loyet after an Eldora incident. Long story short, Loyet has a long history of racing much like he did on Saturday. But before then, there should have been some warnings....there should have been some long talks and maybe a little physical intimidation....there should have been a suspension if things didn't get better! Don't take away a race that a guy just ran - instead, tell him not to even bother showing up at the next one.

For someone like Loyet, maybe a fine won't do the trick. Maybe taking away this win won't get the point across. But if you take away his opportunity to race, it will hurt him more than anything. Anyway, I wish Brad a lot of luck this year and I look forward to watching him race a sprint car this season. I just hope he stays safe and becomes better at racing within himself...

in response to Tim original question, and trying to stay on topic as my buddy Don taught me, LOL. This is one of those tough questions where there really is no right answer in my opinion. I hate to see judgment calls and races decided by officials, but i also hate to see rough driving going unchecked. For me the core issue has to be intent, which is only really known to the guy behind the visor, and is really tough to judge. Was it a aggressive move that end up in contact, or was it intentional contact. I think in this case it was right for POWRI to do something, not because of the specific parties involved, but because it is their job to set a precedent that rough driving, intentional or not, will not be tolerated. I've been involved in POWRI racing since the beginning and have been concerned along with quite a few other drivers, owners and X drivers about things getting rougher during the past few seasons. Some of it is hard driving young drivers, some of it is experienced middle aged and older drivers. Don't get me wrong i would never say that POWRI is a club known for rough driving, but these things seem to escalate quickly if they are not dealt with. I think when you got punted the last race, it becomes a little easier to justify punting someone the next time. when the guys winning the races are throwing 3 or 4 mid **** pit slide jobs on there way to the front, it become a little easy to justify doing it yourself. The bottom line is that when it started becoming more of an issue last season POWRI stepped up and started to let it be known that it wouldn't be tolerated. It was brought up at the drivers meetings last season, and in my case i was even pulled aside and talked to after one of my drivers gave another a few shots under the yellow after being spun by that driver. When it came up in this situation they had the guts to follow through knowing it would be contraversial. hopefully everyone will get the message and this will not become a reoccuring thing. I don't think it was an easy decision for POWRI, Loyet is defiantly one of there biggest name drivers and has run the majority of there races since he started in midgets. I think it will send a powerful message though, if they will penalize him, i know i won't get away with it. I do feel a little bad for the Loyet's, as has been said in this thread and the other, they are good people who love miget racing, and Brad is probably catching more hell on this one than he really deserves. As a fellow driver i know how little time there is to make a critical decsion. if i was in his position i may have made the same move, but i also believe a driver should be accountable for the results of his actions.

Now This Is A Great Topic! I think my opinion has been covered by Spridge.

I'm just glad that there has been a real positive debate and a constructive sharing of views on a great relavent topic. And not the usual BIOCHING posts about the cost of racing ETC.......

I was not there so I am basing my opinion on what I have heard from everyone on this site.

I would say that Loyet should of stood as the winner. I have never seen a race where a judgment call determined the winner. Regardless if Loyet has a history of aggressive driving or not. I remember a slide job by Hunter at TSS last year where he took out Bland but he still was awarded the victory.

I have been to several races and have seen many racers make stupid decisions that take someone out of the race. Very rarely do you see anyone get penalized for it. Personally I feel Poweri has opened up a can of worms they should of left closed.

Every person that gets taken out by a random act of aggressive driving better get the same treatment as Kuhn received. I feel that is impossible to achieve.

I just do not see how they can regulate this rule fairly with all the racing going on. I guess they will only use this if it determines the winner of the event?