[Sling'n DIRT]

What will be the total cost of these engines?

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Ray3 2.4L Midget Engine Tip of the Day! Aftermarket components are often times the same or less costly than OEM components for a production based 2.4L Midget Engine. For instance, 2.4L Honda stock OEM camshafts cost $967.06 retail per pair. However, aftermarket performance camshafts for the 2.4L Honda engine cost only $578.95 per pair from BC Brian Crower! Check it out by comparing prices on estore.honda.com vs BrianCrower.com!

Ray

In Mini Sprints it is cheaper to buy another motor off of Ebay than repair or even freshen your old unit. OEM or After Market parts are just too expensive. Brian probably wants a reusable core in order to purchase his cam right?

By the way you can buy a new Honda cam off the net for http://hondaparts.bochhondawest.com/...FRCEaQode0IEIw

Honest Dad himself

[xoxide]

Originally Posted by DAD Brian probably wants a reusable core in order to purchase his cam right?

Incorrect. I was sponsored by BC Racing when I was doing Pro-am drifting prior to coming over to midgets..... Buy your camshafts and go- no core necessary.

[Sling'n DIRT]

So stock oem cams are really $195.27 but from the Honda dealer they are over $900+ and when you add a preformace cam $500+....looks like OEM aftermarket not dealer is the way to go

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by Sling'n DIRT So stock oem cams are really $195.27 but from the Honda dealer they are over $900+ and when you add a preformace cam $500+....looks like OEM aftermarket not dealer is the way to go

OEM per the site that was posted are $390.54 for a pair. Aftermarket performance cams were $578.95 for a pair. So, the difference would be $188.41. However, on that very same web site I found stock OEM cams for a Honda for $649.86 per pair. http://hondaparts.bochhondawest.com/...cam-chain-scat So which OEM cam is better and why not just buy the aftermarket parts since the engine is to be used in a performance application.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Ray3 OEM per the site that was posted are $390.54 for a pair. Aftermarket performance cams were $578.95 for a pair. So, the difference would be $188.41. However, on that very same web site I found stock OEM cams for a Honda for $649.86 per pair. http://hondaparts.bochhondawest.com/...cam-chain-scat So which OEM cam is better and why not just buy the aftermarket parts since the engine is to be used in a performance application.

Ray

I have no problem with racing cams springs and retainers, Too hard to tec these things at a race track. Valves present a few problems in my thinking. There would be no easy way to check head diameter>>>Stainless and Titanium are both anti magnetic. A good valve job and attention to the valves bowl could net a few more Horse Power. But discerning between types of valves would be a problem and I can see a bunch of people touting their special supper duty valve of the month.

Stock as cast ports should answer most of these concerns It is going to be hard to port a head and come back with casting part lines and cast finish, but never put anything past a racer with lots of money and a vendor anxious to get into their pocket book. Is there a reason for wanting to do away with stock steel valves other than weight and restriction to flow. The selling point of these engines should be those 4 little valves and how well they work even in stock form.

Honest Dad himself

[Ray3]

Thank you to everyone who has hit the "Like" button on our Facebook page. We will be continuing to put information on the page for those who truly want to learn more about this new 2.4L Midget Engine concept. Please feel free to message us through the Facebook page. You may also Download our suggested Rule Book at http://2-4midgetracing.com

[Roy Bleckert]

BCRA has this about as close as your going to get on stock block rule , they also do not obsolete any current equipment ,If they were adopted by USAC/POWRI & every were else, I could tote a Midget from Hanford to Williams Grove & race it no division splitting or sub classes , just show up & race , now how can you get simpler than that ? http://www.bcraracing.com/2015/03/20...t-rule-book-3/

B. Engine specifications

1.) Single non-overhead cam pushrod rocker arm type:

a. 4 or 6 cylinder inline, 2 valves per cylinder, water cooled, iron block and head with intake and exhaust port on same side. - 184 CID
Cross-flow head, cast iron. - 174 CID
b. 4 cylinder inline, 2 valves per cylinder, aluminum block and/or head, with intake and exhaust ports on same side of head - 174 CID
c. 4 cylinders horizontally opposed, 2 valves inline with parallel axis. - 174 CID
d. Max 6 cylinder V-type (90 degree V). 2 valves per cylinder- 174 CID
e. Automotive production based, "Pontiac and Chevy II" 4 cylinder inline 2 valves per cylinder, aluminum block and/or head. - 174 CID
f. All other 4 cylinder inline, 2 valves per cylinder,
cross flow head, aluminum block and/or head - 166 CID

2.) Single overhead cam, maximum 6 cylinder inline or V (maximum 90 degree) water-cooled, 2 valves per cylinder. - 161 CID
3.) Double overhead cam.

a. 4 cylinder inline water-cooled maximum of 4 valves per cylinder. - 132 CID
b. 4 or 6 cylinder V-type (maximum 90 degrees), 2 valves per cylinder – 128
c. Maximum 6 cylinder V-type (maximum 90 degrees), 4 valves per cylinder - 120 CID


4.) Any OEM engine installed in a vehicle on a production line with original type cylinder head/block/crankshaft assembly mated at time of production, with electronic ignition and electronic fuel injection allowed. No after-market crankshafts. Maximum displacement:

a. DOHC 4 valves/cyl - 153 cid (approx. 2.5 liter)
b. SOHC 2 valves/cyl - 183 cid (approx. 3.0 liter)
c. OHV 2 valves/cyl - 200 cid (approx. 3.25 liter)
d. OHV 3 valves/cyl - 163 cid (approx. 2.67liter)

5.) Complete engines and/or major components must be available in a reasonably sufficient supply to all competitors at comparative prices.
6.) Except where specifically indicated, engines must be normally aspirated, internal combustion, four-cycle, reciprocating piston type, incorporating a maximum of 6 cylinders. Only one spark plug per cylinder will be allowed.
7.) The preceding engine sizes are the maximum permitted. No clean up will be allowed.
8.) BCRA reserves the right to disallow any engine for competition, which in its judgment does not meet the spirit and intent of competitive racing in regards to cost and/or performance. Any engines not covered by the preceding specifications must be submitted for approval prior to entering a competition.
9.) Electronic fuel injection (EFI) is only allowed on OEM stock block engines and, for the sealed Esslinger EST engine.

[Jonr]

After spending the last two weekends chasing midgets around the heartland, I will say that they are my favorite class. I have often thought that we need a way/class to get more people back into midget racing. If you look at the money that some people are putting into USRA/UMP mods, it makes not sense. I have often thought that it would be great if we could get some of the top end modified drivers moving over to midgets. The 2.4L engine class could be the way to make this happen.

However, we need to understand that for midget racing to continue to grow and for the 2.4L midget class to work, we need the current national midget series. Trying to convince people that we need to change the rules of the national series to match the rules that you want is not going to work. Just like the World of Outlaws helps all of winged sprint cars. Having Keith Kunz put Kyle Larson, Rico Abreu, and Christopher Bell in a USAC/POWRi midget helps all of the midget classes.

I understand that owning a national series midget is not in the budget for most average Joe's. However, I am not driving to Belleville Midget Nationals to watch an average Joe. I am watching the Kunz drivers, Jerry Coons, BC and the rest of the USAC regulars.

[DAD]

Roy

Thanks for the BCRA engine rules. Looking at them I see a set of 50 or 60 year old rules that have been added to as time went along. They are identifying motors long since out of production. That does not make much sense to me. Why is it necessary to handicap engine designs. Racers are pretty smart people sometimes given the opportunity to use their God Given Brain. Why would anyone even try to compete a Falcon Motor with an Esslinger Pinto. Ain't going to happen.

I have had the misfortune of being in business for a long time. When I see a number like 2438.7 cc's it makes me think somebody is trying to comp a contract. If a business man is looking to buy a new widget and he is required to put it out on bid, and he also has a brother in law that owns a widget factory, he simply sets his specifications in his bid to rule out every other widget factory in business thus allowing his brother in law the contract. A max of 2438.7 cc's seems a little specific. Ray's is not the only set of rules to do so, some were made out of lack of knowledge others with a specific outcome in mind. I was looking for God to come down and explain that number but as of yet he has not done so.

Engine design has changed greatly in the last 60 years or so. The old Offy 110 or Flat head V8 60's were boat anchors compared with modern day engine design. They were both cast iron and heavy. A motor of 97 to 135 cubic inches were all one could hope to carry in a midget size chassis.

Four valve motors are what are mostly available today. Two valve motors are for all intent and purposes gone from the scene. These new engine are built very light using light wight investment castings and dedicated molds, lighter than even the race motors of today that are using old sand castings. V8 motors are also disappearing. The new high performance motor is the V6 or forced induction 4 cylinder motor. The economy motor is the 1600-2500 cc 4 cylinder.

Why do we worry so much about port placement or whether the cylinder and cylinder head are made out of cast iron or aluminum that is simply an ANAL way of looking at things.

We are debating a new class of Midget racer why do we set our goals to be lower than that of the National Midget Class. Lets think about making a Kick Butt Class. We are starting out aren't we?
The new performance engine is the V6 displacing somewhere between 2500 and 3600 cc's. Because of the design of the V block they are blessed with ports that do not have to make a 90 degree bend before getting to the valve. Some guys look at Valve Covers, some guys look at camshaft drives, me I look at cylinder head ports. The V6 right now has the best design on ports period. Forced induction is coming and when that does come into play port design will not be so critical.

Take a stock or nearly stock V6 rated at 325 HP stock and put it in a Midget see what happens. If you set the displacement a 3000 cc's allow stroking and de stroking>>de stroke it and see what happens.

In the mean time don't rule out that little Mini sprint with your drive system it can help you grow your class. When that cycle motor goes see how long it takes them to switch over to a V6.

Honest Dad himself